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Thread: Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica Plot Holes and/or Questions

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guthix View Post
    for the question why homura doesnt have a weapon:
    there was a discusion in the chat box about this. we came to a conclusion that the weapon type a girl gets depends on theyr wish.
    mami wished to live so she gained abillity of reproduction aka unlimited guns.
    kyoko wished ppl would folow her fathers preaching thus obtaining the ability to bind with those red chains
    sayaka wished to heal the musicial so she got fast healing which complimented her short sword
    homura on the other hand wished to go back in time to protect madoka so she got a time shield.
    as for homuras bow i dont recall it in the discusion,neither do i remember it my self.
    oh and lol at your last comment didle
    damn that discussion was a long time ago

    "A great love is a lot like a good memory. When its there, and you know it's there, but its just out of your reach, it can be all you think about.
    You can focus on it and try to force it, but the more you do, the more you seem to push it away. But if you're patient, and you hold still, well maybe, just maybe, it'll come to you."

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guthix View Post
    for the question why homura doesnt have a weapon:
    there was a discusion in the chat box about this. we came to a conclusion that the weapon type a girl gets depends on theyr wish.
    mami wished to live so she gained abillity of reproduction aka unlimited guns.
    kyoko wished ppl would folow her fathers preaching thus obtaining the ability to bind with those red chains
    sayaka wished to heal the musicial so she got fast healing which complimented her short sword
    homura on the other hand wished to go back in time to protect madoka so she got a time shield.
    as for homuras bow i dont recall it in the discusion,neither do i remember it my self.
    oh and lol at your last comment didle
    I wasn't even sure how to form their abilities and themes into a question. Kyubey mentions that the wish's intentions affect the powers, but it's a bit hard to see where their powers' limits are. Reproduction representing Mami seems pretty off because she wanted to be saved, not brought back from the dead (plus that might have saved her in the fight with Charlotte you'd think). Homura only has a bow after Madoka changes the universe, so the significance there is debatable. Maybe she crafted it in honor of Madoka, maybe Madoka made her able to use one. Neither idea really makes much sense though.

  3. #93
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    Welp, now we have a dead thread.

  4. #94
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    "N-N-N-N-NECRO POST"

    I just finished this now, enjoyed the show but...the ending...god I hate anime endings. Basically Kaiju is/was right, explains the Witches being replaced with Old Dudes, because they're the "OLD ONES"

    I wrote a huge rant about the ending then deleted it, just pointless, going to watch Spice & Wolf Episode 1 now, hope that series doesn't end in some crazy "Girl becomes god, makes everything ok, but leaves the flow of time in tact so everyone still dies when they're meant to and for some reason girl stops exsitng and was never born"

  5. #95
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    not sure how to respond to that

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    I can buy into Madoka becoming a magic-girl Mercy Angel, with PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS, re-writing reality so instead of Magical Girls souls getting corrupted and becoming Witches, they're saved, but die instead, spawning Wraiths too, but why does Madoka stop existing? Why does her higher plane of existance mean she never had a life before it. It's one little stupid thing that seemed to make the final episode neeedlessly complicated/poetic.

    She accended, we get it, but why now do we have a mother having vague memories of the daughter she never had, a little brother recalling an older sister that was never born. I know why, to show the audience the family is okay and never truely forgot her, but to me, never knowing their own daughter is insanely tragic. It's not really something anyone can argue, it's just personal opinion and thought I should write it down before moving on to the next show.

    I do find it funny at the end of the universe she even "saves" herself from becoming a witch, basically commiting cosmic suicide, causing the death of the universe and the birth of the next one.

  7. #97
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    Yeah, that was unnecessarily tragic. If she is now god of magical girls, she can totally magic up a divine birth and save her friend and have a living component. Or something.

    This is similar to why I didn't like the ending of mahoromatic. Slightly different tone, though.

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  8. #98
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    It's not unnecessarily tragic though, the story at its very cor is a tragedy and a damn masterfully pulled off one. It's very appropriately tragic.

    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

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    I am now no longer alone in my solitude. For I am now surrounded by the Furies, the goddesses of vengeance. In the darkness I awaited the dawn.And once dawn came I cursed my flesh until night fell once more.I even prayed I would loose my sanity but those prayers went unanswered. I even strove for death but the Devil's cold, pitiless hand held me back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abyssion1337 View Post
    It's not unnecessarily tragic though, the story at its very cor is a tragedy and a damn masterfully pulled off one. It's very appropriately tragic.
    grimdark for the sake of being grimdark =/= "masterful tragedy"

    I'll leave it at that.

  10. #100
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    It's not grimdark for the sake being grimdark, it's supposed to be a tragedy, it's honestly like you don't understand it at all, like you're not even trying to be fair. I'm sorry if you don't like tragedy but some people do and sometimes it's an appropriate way to tell the story.

    Actually no, I'm not going to let you off that easily, you're not looking at it in any way that would lead me to believe that you can carry on an intelligent discussion about it, you're hyperbolic, and when you don't have a counterpoint to a someone saying something good about it you brush it off and pretend it doesn't exist, hate if you want but be fair to it. I don't look at ever individual aspect of something I hate in a negative light if it has something that's actually good about it, no one should because it means they're not looking at the thing well enough to have an informed opinion. And that's how you come off, as someone railing against something you don't know enough about to have an opinion.
    Last edited by abyssion1337; 10-12-2012 at 02:42 AM.

    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

    Optimus Prime died for your sins

    I am now no longer alone in my solitude. For I am now surrounded by the Furies, the goddesses of vengeance. In the darkness I awaited the dawn.And once dawn came I cursed my flesh until night fell once more.I even prayed I would loose my sanity but those prayers went unanswered. I even strove for death but the Devil's cold, pitiless hand held me back.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by abyssion1337 View Post
    It's not grimdark for the sake being grimdark, it's supposed to be a tragedy, it's honestly like you don't understand it at all, like you're not even trying to be fair. I'm sorry if you don't like tragedy but some people do and sometimes it's an appropriate way to tell the story.
    Watching blind sheep wallow in a pile of filth that they believe is gold can only be described as pathetic. I take it that Madoka your first Gen Urobuchi story? I say this because anybody that isn't an edgy teen can comprehend that Urobuchi's writing is formulaic and stale. His always has his characters die off a few moments after they get their (hamfisted) development in an attempt to force the audience's emotions. This is an unruly method that shows immaturity and incompetence. Compare it to, say, Kei Amemiya's death in Jin-Roh. Her character evolved throughout the movie and featured a twist that, though was surprising, wasn't abrupt. Through her character we get to see an actual dilemma in Constable Kazuki Fuse's story in which he must make the choice between soldier or bystander with the undertones that once your involved you can't get out. Her involvement in the story had meaning, her development was well paced, and her death had subtle undertones that were only evident to the viewer through inspection, as opposed to being filled with preachy overtones. To continue on with the subject of Urobuchi's characters, let us move on to the characters themselves as opposed to how he uses them. Let's discuss the characters of Madoka, Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka, and Homura. Mami and Kyouko's characters were the second most flawed characters in Madoka, in my opinion. It's obvious that they were to serve as the "seasoned veteran" characters with Mami assuming somewhat of a guiding role while Kyouko served a role to show how Magical Girls rivaled one another (Before we got to her, we only saw a glimps of that with Homura and Mami.) Mami's character was extremely two-dimensional in comparison to, say, Lisa Lisa from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 2: Battle Tendency. They both were veterned characters who were to guide the characters (Mami = Sayaka and Madoka, Lisa Lisa = Joseph and Caeser). Mami's character, however, was just that, a guide. That was it. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with this if it weren't for the fact that she was given some "development" before her inevitable and obligatory death. If you are going give a character development, do not do it in this last minute manner. At the very least, build up to this moment, show some signs of her development. Do whatever you can, but at the least avoid it. Lisa Lisa's character was great. Her emotions were shown when they were necessary. For example, look at the time when Caeser died. How does she react? Well, at first we are lead to believe that she cares not for the death of her pupil; however, when she "fought" the vampire (The one that says "OK" at the end of his sentences) We see a great deal of her character as she attempts to hold in her grief and gets an obviously lump in her throat. As for Kyouko, let's talk about her relationship/rivalry with Sayaka by comparing them to that of Dio Brando and Jonathan Joestar's relationship/ rivalry. Kyouko and Sayaka's relationship/ rivalry developed too quickly for it to even be considered well written. It was a spur of the moment ordeal in which Kyouko suddenly became Sayaka's best buddy who would do anything for her, while completely disregarding their past confrontations. Dio and JoJo's relationship/rivalry grew into a monumental rivalry. One was a charismatic con-artist from a family of con-artists while the other was just a gullible child who wanted nothing more than to do the right. We see Dio and JoJo's relationship go from your average squabble in between brothers to a monumental rivalry of tremendous proportions. JoJo overcame the bounds of being a human to fight against Dio, a genetically superior vampire. After all, JoJo was acting out of grief for his father's death and could care less about what happened to himself. We see more of how JoJo felt when he "killed" Dio. He struggled when he "killed" him. He still, despite all of what had occurred, thought of Dio as family and couldn't let go of this fact. Their rivalry was great. We didn't have rushed development with them. Their rivalry still had their brotherly bond involved, and wasn't black-and-white such as Kyouko and Sayaka's. As for Homura, well, her character was just poor in general. Her motives, though clear, were generally idiotic and went along the lines of, "I will save one person, at the price of the world." This was just insanity, especially because this occurred because Madoka was nice to her in class. I generally dislike characters such as Homura (Characters whose motives are just bi-products of extreme overreactions.), so I might have a bit of a bias, thus, I won't get into her character to avoid a biassed review of her character. Madoka herself is a fairly average, but has barely any focus placed onto her. It would have been more impactful to give her some more inner monologues, so we could get more from her character and find out what she thinks about the specific situation. Unfortunately, we barely get much of her thoughts on being a magic girl. Especially around episode 8 or so in which the show pretty much becomes Homura Magika. This leads into another issue, the ending. Let us compare Enrico Pucci's universal reset to Madoka's universal reset. Madoka's universal reset was a pretentious deus ex machina, another unruly literary tactic. The animation of it all happening was completely unnecessary and ruined the entire moment in that it was blatantly just SHAFT using up the rest of their budget and Shinbo being a horrible director, as usual. The scene would have been better if it just acted as a reset, rather than Madoka doing some TTGL ****. It's like Scar Symmetry's Morphogenesis music video. The directing of the music video detracted from a great song. You see, Enrico's ability to reset the universe was explained before hand and the audience was well aware of it. We also weren't subjected to some tedious panels to lead into this, we just got one page to focus on it, and that was it. It wasn't delivered poorly either. In fact, the universal reset lead a monumental change in the world that affected the entirety of the story (as opposed to some minor effect such as Madoka's Demons = new Witches and Madoka = Magical Escort to Magic Girl Valhalla) The universal reset (The one that led into Steel Ball Run) occurred because of the defeat of the main antagonist, as opposed to occurring to combat the antagonist due to the author writing himself into a corner. By the way, never use that He-Doesn't-Like-It-So-He-Must-Hate-The-Whole-Genre "argument." It just makes you look like an immature child who can't handle differing opinions. Although, the shoe fits in this situation.

    Actually no, I'm not going to let you off that easily, you're not looking at it in any way that would lead me to believe that you can carry on an intelligent discussion about it, you're hyperbolic, and when you don't have a counterpoint to a someone saying something good about it you brush it off and pretend it doesn't exist, hate if you want but be fair to it. I don't look at ever individual aspect of something I hate in a negative light if it has something that's actually good about it, no one should because it means they're not looking at the thing well enough to have an informed opinion. And that's how you come off, as someone railing against something you don't know enough about to have an opinion.
    I see that you're still using that strung-out, hypocritical garbage that is essentially a glorified way of saying, "ur a faget" as an argument.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backmask View Post
    Watching blind sheep wallow in a pile of filth that they believe is gold can only be described as pathetic. I take it that Madoka your first Gen Urobuchi story? I say this because anybody that isn't an edgy teen can comprehend that Urobuchi's writing is formulaic and stale. His always has his characters die off a few moments after they get their (hamfisted) development in an attempt to force the audience's emotions. This is an unruly method that shows immaturity and incompetence. Compare it to, say, Kei Amemiya's death in Jin-Roh. Her character evolved throughout the movie and featured a twist that, though was surprising, wasn't abrupt. Through her character we get to see an actual dilemma in Constable Kazuki Fuse's story in which he must make the choice between soldier or bystander with the undertones that once your involved you can't get out. Her involvement in the story had meaning, her development was well paced, and her death had subtle undertones that were only evident to the viewer through inspection, as opposed to being filled with preachy overtones. To continue on with the subject of Urobuchi's characters, let us move on to the characters themselves as opposed to how he uses them. Let's discuss the characters of Madoka, Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka, and Homura. Mami and Kyouko's characters were the second most flawed characters in Madoka, in my opinion. It's obvious that they were to serve as the "seasoned veteran" characters with Mami assuming somewhat of a guiding role while Kyouko served a role to show how Magical Girls rivaled one another (Before we got to her, we only saw a glimps of that with Homura and Mami.) Mami's character was extremely two-dimensional in comparison to, say, Lisa Lisa from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 2: Battle Tendency. They both were veterned characters who were to guide the characters (Mami = Sayaka and Madoka, Lisa Lisa = Joseph and Caeser). Mami's character, however, was just that, a guide. That was it. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with this if it weren't for the fact that she was given some "development" before her inevitable and obligatory death. If you are going give a character development, do not do it in this last minute manner. At the very least, build up to this moment, show some signs of her development. Do whatever you can, but at the least avoid it. Lisa Lisa's character was great. Her emotions were shown when they were necessary. For example, look at the time when Caeser died. How does she react? Well, at first we are lead to believe that she cares not for the death of her pupil; however, when she "fought" the vampire (The one that says "OK" at the end of his sentences) We see a great deal of her character as she attempts to hold in her grief and gets an obviously lump in her throat. As for Kyouko, let's talk about her relationship/rivalry with Sayaka by comparing them to that of Dio Brando and Jonathan Joestar's relationship/ rivalry. Kyouko and Sayaka's relationship/ rivalry developed too quickly for it to even be considered well written. It was a spur of the moment ordeal in which Kyouko suddenly became Sayaka's best buddy who would do anything for her, while completely disregarding their past confrontations. Dio and JoJo's relationship/rivalry grew into a monumental rivalry. One was a charismatic con-artist from a family of con-artists while the other was just a gullible child who wanted nothing more than to do the right. We see Dio and JoJo's relationship go from your average squabble in between brothers to a monumental rivalry of tremendous proportions. JoJo overcame the bounds of being a human to fight against Dio, a genetically superior vampire. After all, JoJo was acting out of grief for his father's death and could care less about what happened to himself. We see more of how JoJo felt when he "killed" Dio. He struggled when he "killed" him. He still, despite all of what had occurred, thought of Dio as family and couldn't let go of this fact. Their rivalry was great. We didn't have rushed development with them. Their rivalry still had their brotherly bond involved, and wasn't black-and-white such as Kyouko and Sayaka's. As for Homura, well, her character was just poor in general. Her motives, though clear, were generally idiotic and went along the lines of, "I will save one person, at the price of the world." This was just insanity, especially because this occurred because Madoka was nice to her in class. I generally dislike characters such as Homura (Characters whose motives are just bi-products of extreme overreactions.), so I might have a bit of a bias, thus, I won't get into her character to avoid a biassed review of her character. Madoka herself is a fairly average, but has barely any focus placed onto her. It would have been more impactful to give her some more inner monologues, so we could get more from her character and find out what she thinks about the specific situation. Unfortunately, we barely get much of her thoughts on being a magic girl. Especially around episode 8 or so in which the show pretty much becomes Homura Magika. This leads into another issue, the ending. Let us compare Enrico Pucci's universal reset to Madoka's universal reset. Madoka's universal reset was a pretentious deus ex machina, another unruly literary tactic. The animation of it all happening was completely unnecessary and ruined the entire moment in that it was blatantly just SHAFT using up the rest of their budget and Shinbo being a horrible director, as usual. The scene would have been better if it just acted as a reset, rather than Madoka doing some TTGL ****. It's like Scar Symmetry's Morphogenesis music video. The directing of the music video detracted from a great song. You see, Enrico's ability to reset the universe was explained before hand and the audience was well aware of it. We also weren't subjected to some tedious panels to lead into this, we just got one page to focus on it, and that was it. It wasn't delivered poorly either. In fact, the universal reset lead a monumental change in the world that affected the entirety of the story (as opposed to some minor effect such as Madoka's Demons = new Witches and Madoka = Magical Escort to Magic Girl Valhalla) The universal reset (The one that led into Steel Ball Run) occurred because of the defeat of the main antagonist, as opposed to occurring to combat the antagonist due to the author writing himself into a corner. By the way, never use that He-Doesn't-Like-It-So-He-Must-Hate-The-Whole-Genre "argument." It just makes you look like an immature child who can't handle differing opinions. Although, the shoe fits in this situation.


    I see that you're still using that strung-out, hypocritical garbage that is essentially a glorified way of saying, "ur a faget" as an argument.
    do you feel better after typing all of that?

    "A great love is a lot like a good memory. When its there, and you know it's there, but its just out of your reach, it can be all you think about.
    You can focus on it and try to force it, but the more you do, the more you seem to push it away. But if you're patient, and you hold still, well maybe, just maybe, it'll come to you."

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arock View Post
    do you feel better after typing all of that?
    I felt better knowing that the Titans beat the Steelers while I was typing all of that.

  14. #104
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    Just saying...every core plot's been written before, and will be written again.
    To help you remain tranquil in the face of almost certain death, smooth jazz will be deployed, in three, two, one...


  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeman View Post


    Just saying...every core plot's been written before, and will be written again.
    I was referring to the quality of the writing, not Madoka's contraversy.

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