Improve AMV Hell Forums

[urahara1001]

1. A lovely thought, Urahara, but lacking in details.
What kind of a project? Tell us. Will “community collaboration” really prevent the kind of nonsense seen in the final destination thread?

2. Why the negativity? Are you calling me a “bag of dicks” too?
That kind of rotten thinking hasn’t helped improve anything since you joined, and just makes you look foolish for joining a forum full of- and associating with- bags of dicks.
Drop this “that’s just the way things are around here” attitude, forchristsake.
Don’t settle for a community full of “bags of dicks”, demand something better.

1. The lack of details there was by design, intended as more of a potential point to open discussion. I myself haven't devised any specifics, but I could do so and offer them as suggestions if there is some interest there. I'm not sure if this would fix the problem as a whole, but I do think a change in focus and direction on the primary project would help set the tone for the forums.

2. I'm meaning this more to refer to the harsh criticism and attitude that is popular among the forums, even touched upon in the self-promotion thread video (though toned down quite a bit compared to the usual). The sort of stuff that is typically free to be enjoyed around here because it's not intended seriously. It's the same kind of comedy one gets when they listen to someone like Lewis Black or the Angry Video Game Nerd. I don't have a problem with this, and in fact I really like this kind of humor. The problem I see is when people are no longer intending it as humor.

There are a few specific individuals where I believe this is the case, and I believe most people know who they are and know to simply ignore them. Yes, I do take a 'that's just how it is' attitude toward those people, because there will always be people like that in life, and I find the best way to beat them is to ignore them. If you engage in any way, they get a reaction and thus win. I don't believe the lack of humorous intention has spread to the forum as a whole.

Perhaps it may be more appropriate to say that everyone is dildos; they're just pretending to be dicks. There are a couple of actual dicks in the bunch, but no one likes them because they lack exotic colors and tend to go flaccid.

[Guthix]

1. The lack of details there was by design, intended as more of a potential point to open discussion. I myself haven't devised any specifics, but I could do so and offer them as suggestions if there is some interest there. I'm not sure if this would fix the problem as a whole, but I do think a change in focus and direction on the primary project would help set the tone for the forums.

2. I'm meaning this more to refer to the harsh criticism and attitude that is popular among the forums, even touched upon in the self-promotion thread video (though toned down quite a bit compared to the usual). The sort of stuff that is typically free to be enjoyed around here because it's not intended seriously. It's the same kind of comedy one gets when they listen to someone like Lewis Black or the Angry Video Game Nerd. I don't have a problem with this, and in fact I really like this kind of humor. The problem I see is when people are no longer intending it as humor.

There are a few specific individuals where I believe this is the case, and I believe most people know who they are and know to simply ignore them. Yes, I do take a 'that's just how it is' attitude toward those people, because there will always be people like that in life, and I find the best way to beat them is to ignore them. If you engage in any way, they get a reaction and thus win. I don't believe the lack of humorous intention has spread to the forum as a whole.

Perhaps it may be more appropriate to say that everyone is dildos; they're just pretending to be dicks. There are a couple of actual dicks in the bunch, but no one likes them because they lack exotic colors and tend to go flaccid.

what the **** man? its starting to look like im reading bad dick related fanfic

[hosokawa37]

Well, this is the internet, so it's expected for the forum to have dicks and egotistical a-holes, which generally stirs up s*** in the forums. For me, I come here to enjoy myself and enjoy going through some of the forums. It doesn't get fun, however, if there is a side topic which essentially becomes of contest of who gets to say "F*** you!" last. I agree it's hard to keep these forums in check with the few mods we do have, and they are generally busy themselves. I feel us regulars should be grown men and keep such things from happening, instead of stirring up more s*** and feeding the egotistical members.

I'll admit, there are times I call out certain things I find BS but I do it for the spirit of AMV Hell, as best as I can to make it contributory to the effort.

IN general, make this a community to welcome editors, both newbie and experienced, as well as fans to a place to enjoy themselves and not be scared because of a few certain members. There are reasons why I have been a regular/visitor/contributor for almost 5 years now.

[Akyho]

Reading through there is three things of note.

1:No mass collective project.
2:Competitiveness.
3:Lack of Moderation.

The last collective project was AMV hell 7 which may have just been released 5? months ago, the creation and submission of those clips was almost a year ago. A collab concept like what cough...cough...cough....sorry.....cough Jinzo.....cough..... said...might be a good idea. Not saying this is something for Zarx to do and to make an official AMV hell video, just something aside from Tennis threads from us. There was a number of larger projects by members, Decrucity and Jem being the notable two.

As this works into point one and two maybe causing more Cooperation as well as stopping us being a bored 13 year old in his bedroom jerking off all day.

Also the last moderation that I know of around here aside from Zarxs telling folks to simmer down in Final destination thread. Was Madevil shifting or locking Kintaro's trolling, followed by the hunt to ban all his troll accounts. That was months ago.

[pzykosiz]

I've only been regularly here since about August, and everything seems to be getting worse.

I did find this place was a bit hostile then to newer members/contributors at the time,
and as with other forums I've been on, sometimes the only way to get respect is to hit back a bit.

Everyone here, including me, have talked **** about other people (which wasn't in a joking way) at some point,
normally getting settled pretty quick, but it does seem lately that it is getting worse.

It does seem like arguments start on every other post these days, but it's not specific people starting it, it seems
like everyone has the ability starts fights, and a lot aren't even intentional

[urahara1001]

Got to thinking of potential collaborative projects (I believe that would still be relevant to the discussion here, though will probably need to split off in its own thread at some point), and I have an idea. We can call it AMV Back to School or something like that. A theme is picked like the minis challenges (gives us something to do with the tons of suggestions still left over), and everyone gets say two weeks to make a video. The collection is put together and shown, and everyone discusses it and gives ideas for improvement. Let's say you get a week for suggestions and then another week to update and improve your clip (or make another one if your whole idea is flawed), after which the finalized collection is shown. No voting, no competition, no secrecy for your submission (finding a partner to get suggestions from before the submission deadline is encouraged). It's all about improving ourselves and making a quality collection.

I have not done extended planning with this idea yet, suggestions are welcome.

[milleniummaster18]

Minis Challenges had lots of feedback and it still did not contribute that much towards the improvement of the quality. One reason was that a lot of contributors of subpar content did not ask for feedback, follow up on their clips, or request assistance because they were (and still are) not truly involved with the community, they just "hit and ran". (The competitive format didn't help things, either.)
Another reason was that some people were obtuse and stubborn, which we can do little about that but to teach them how things work, the hard way (by rejecting clips, a practice that was seldom present in the Challenges). It would be unfair and unreliable to control video submissions based on the contributor's forum activity, so the most reliable alternative is, as it always has been, to restore the minimum standards of quality back to how they were earlier. That way, people would have something to aim for. Making it to Hell has always been an achievement for people, we should strive to achieve similar (if not better) sentiments in Minis.

As for the forums themselves, it boggles me every time I see how little the actual Video Help forum is used. It's in the interest of the community to expand this knowledge
base so that there's less of an excuse for people to make work that's subpar in terms of quality, we can't really do much about ****ty senses of humour.

[jinzo64]

How to improve the community attitude towards each other, Will take time and effort.
We just need to try and be more polite and more constructive with our criticisms and opinions.

An Idea for future AMV Mini challenges.
Zarks picks the bases for the first challenge then the winner of the first challenge picks the bases for the next challenge, then the winner of that challenge would pick the next bases for the next challenge.

It could also be set up like a league so the top 5 videos get points
1st 10pts
2nd 8pts
3rd 6pts
4th 4pts
5th 2pts

[DXM]

that is all

[Backmask]

We could do with some more discussions.
As it stands, the Random Picture Thread often finds as much discussion, possibly even more, as the Video Games or What Anime Are you Watching threads.

[Akyho]

Minis Challenges had lots of feedback and it still did not contribute that much towards the improvement of the quality. One reason was that a lot of contributors of subpar content did not ask for feedback, follow up on their clips, or request assistance because they were (and still are) not truly involved with the community, they just "hit and ran". (The competitive format didn't help things, either.)
Another reason was that some people were obtuse and stubborn, which we can do little about that but to teach them how things work, the hard way (by rejecting clips, a practice that was seldom present in the Challenges)..

I was gonna come by and throw that sentiment in too, a lot of the fights that has been happening is well.... "AMV Hell Elites" vs newbie.

For the most part "AMV Hell Elites" would give criticism and suggestions for future projects to be met with stubbornness, whining and arguments (granted some of the criticism may have been a bit harsh in the first place.) most people in the challenges just do not take any criticism well.

When it was AMV Hell 6, 6.66 or 7 even with newbies coming around they would show folks clips be them "AMV Hell Elite" or not and ask for suggestions. In fact most folks even the ever guranteed to be harsh Guthix was pretty soft on them, if we saw a clip we were sure was absolutely terrible. We would suggest a new idea and address the issues of the clip and we would get a "ah ok.", we don't know if they took the advice or such but it did not 10 pages worth of arguments and trolling from all sides.

Infact the entire time of the Challenges I never saw people ask for help, who was not already a community member. All the newbies stuck to themselves, while the entire time of AMV hell 6.66 and 7 submission I see folks popping up asking "So hey I want to get into video editing." or "Hmmm I need help on this clip." which I was one of these folks and was supported at length in getting into submitting a decent clip for AMV hell 7.

A few of the Minis newbies have integrated into the AMV Hell quit well and those are the ones that ask for and take criticism. The one who do not never see anything wrong and everything is perfect. That is when a fight happens.

[pzykosiz]

Minis Challenges had lots of feedback and it still did not contribute that much towards the improvement of the quality. One reason was that a lot of contributors of subpar content did not ask for feedback, follow up on their clips, or request assistance because they were (and still are) not truly involved with the community, they just "hit and ran". (The competitive format didn't help things, either.)

possibly part of the reason was the fact that everything was secretive until the voting period was over.
people may not have wanted to reveal things before then

[urahara1001]

^This. I believe this has a LOT to do with the problem, and I think it was primarily driven to be that way due to the competitive nature of the project.

I for one did work around this some times and shared my clips with others to get feedback before submitting for the challenge. Not always did I have time to implement all the suggestions before the deadline, which is totally on me and I own up to it. But the ones I did apply the suggestions on I think were improved significantly, and I made sure to apply the advice to my future clips as well (I don't think I ever had the same criticism twice, except for not laughing, usually related to people not getting the joke due to either lack of knowledge of the reference ot just difference in taste, and that you can't really correct for). To get to this though, I had to 1) disregard the suggested rules on total secrecy and 2) actually talk to people to find someone willing to take a look and offer advice, regardless of whether or not I might be competing against them.

By the way, not trying to beat a dead horse, just reinforcing my point with additional ones being brought up.

[LawRayLiet]

I agree that this forum currently kinda sucks. A problem is that there is typically not a whole lot of serious content to discuss.

I think you hit it dead on with that point. When there's "not a whole lot of serious content to discuss", the arguments and off-topic banters people go on become some of the most entertaining things to read.
The content produced here can only go so far by way of a discussion, so what else?

Most forums I've seen have discussion based forums outside of an off-topic forum.
For example, an Anime forum where series have threads created for on topic discussion. Or even a Gaming forum where specific games may be discussed.
Sure a person could create a thread for specific series in off-topic, but the way things are now, it would just seem out of place. Which is why I think thread creation is mostly at a halt here.
Many think that there's already a thread for everything in which to post whatever you want.

For example, if you wanna post about a video game, they'll say you should post it in "The Video Games Thread".
If you wanna discuss an anime, you'll be directed to the thread "What anime are you watching now?".
But the problem with this is that it's very difficult to have any sort of lasting on topic discussion in such widely general threads. It just doesn't happen.

I view the homepage daily, and most all I see consistently everyday is:

Random Picture Thread
The Cosplay Thread
The Touhou Thread
Funny Gif Thread
Anime Lovely's - NSFW!
Girls with Glasses Thread - Possibly NSFW

Image dump threads, which sadly spawn more discussion then anywhere else, but like everywhere else, doesn't last beyond a few post until it's buried.
Having topic focused discussion forums I believe would inspire more thread creation and some actual lasting discussions.
Which this forum could really use. There's plenty of active members who visit daily, but like myself, find no place or topics to join in on discussing.

There may be other areas or ways to encourage meaningful discussions, but these were just some of my thoughts. I'm curious what everyone else thinks on this topic as well though?

[Distict5-9]

Having topic focused discussion forums I believe would inspire more thread creation and some actual lasting discussions.
Which this forum could really use. There's plenty of active members who visit daily, but like myself, find no place or topics to join in on discussing.

There may be other areas or ways to encourage meaningful discussions, but these were just some of my thoughts. I'm curious what everyone else thinks on this topic as well though?

I guess that our aversion to new threads might play a part in this. Perhaps the idea of creating a lot of threads, each of which revolving entirely around a single, somewhat minor topic, doesn't really sit well within this community. Maybe some sort of "Chatbox mentality" at work...? Or, heck, it might just be that, unlike the bigger forums that have those sort of threads, there's just not enough people to carry on a conversation on any single, specific topic for that long around here, so casual, sparse discussion tend to just be more fitting...

EDIT: Panda's "Recipe Sharing" thread is a good example of this dynamic.

Still, we could try to experiment and break the monotony a bit by getting a few more specific discussion-based/bait threads up to clutter the Off-Topic section. Might just reel in a few new users, for a change....