Video Quality for Dummies

[KeyMaster]

@Zarxrax:

Here's hoping you still glance at this thread from time to time.

I've been reading through your guide on AMV.org and at the moment things are going well enough. I have a question, however, about two of the programs included in the AMV app.

The Adobe Premiere AVS Plugin doesn't support CS5, which puts me up yon proverbial creek for using it to load AviSynth scripts directly into premiere since CS5 seems to be unsupported. Being unable to use that makes using AviSynth pointless I would figure. Which is why I would like to know if the "Pismo File Mount & AviSynth Virtual File System" install could be used as a work around to get my video into Premiere?

While the answers seems like it would be an obvious "yes" I'm left wondering if it's even possible to use AviSynth with CS5 since previous versions required a separate program to be used to accomplish, what I'm guessing, is the same function.

[Zarxrax]

Yes, the pismo file mount can be used as a workaround.
However I would recommend just rendering your sources out to lossless files with the UTvideo codec, if you have the space available. The editing will be MUCH faster and more responsive that way.

The problem with Premiere CS5 is that it uses an entirely 64-bit architecture. Because Avisynth is 32bit, the 2 programs can not work together.

While there is a 64-bit version of Avisynth available, we run into the same problem there, because most of the avisynth plugins are only for 32-bit avisynth!

[KeyMaster]

Thanks Zarxrax, both your answer and the guide have been immensely helpful.

One last question and I don't know if you'll be able to answer it.

I've gone through all the processes of getting the video I have ready for editing and it's all gone very smoothly, however, now when I try to import the lossless avi files into my premiere project it's only importing the first 32 seconds and 12 frames despite the source files all being 22 minutes long.

[Zarxrax]

Very strange problem, I've never heard of that before :\

[blades34AK]

Oh I have a question, do I use AVI Synth to convert avi file into MJPEG file to use it on Sony Vegas? Since Sony Vegas can only display MJPEG video display and not AVI. Sorry to ask but I've read on other forums to figure this out and I was wondering if theres another way around. thnk u.

[KeyMaster]

Very strange problem, I've never heard of that before :\

Yeah, I seem to have a knack for stumbling across crap like this >_>

The good news is I'm not the only poor bastard suffering from this problem as I found out after a bit of digging, unfortunately everyone else doesn't seem to know the answer either. One suggestion I found was looking at the file using a program called Gspot (I was honestly scared to put that search into google) and see if it gave any useful information. Don't know if you'll be able to make any sense of it but you can see what I got here. (so I don't clutter up the thread with the large picture)

The thing that stands out the most to me is the 3.3gigs of garbage data hanging on to the end. I'll take a shot in the dark and assume something went horribly wrong during the encoding process.

So, I then noticed my copy of Vdub was very out of date. I've since updated and now when I try to load my AviSynth scripts I get this error:

AVI Import Filter Error: (Unknown) (80040154)

I'm guessing that means there's something wrong with my AviSynth script. The videos I'm trying to get to work were already great in their quality so I only used (or at least thought I only had to use) the base open file line of code in AviSynth. Currently this is what all my script files look like; substituting the different file names at the end of each path of course:

DirectShowSource("C:\Users\Ben\Documents\Vuze Downloads\My Little Pony - Friendship is Magic\My.Little.Pony.Friendship.Is.Magic.S01E01.Friendship.Is.Magic.Part.1.720p.WEB-DL.DD5.1.h.264-ETP.mkv")

Don't know if any of that makes the issue any clearer in terms of what's wrong. I'm already far outside my usual realm of tech knowledge so I'm pretty much grasping at straws.

--UPDATE--
Okay, I've been taking swings at it all morning and I think I've figured out my problem.

Not only was the version of VirtualDub out of date but it was also the 32-bit version of Virtual Dub, which means that it was only able to use the 32-bit UT video codec. The new version of VirtualDub I picked up is the 64-bit version and is able to use the 64-bit version of the UT video codec. I think that solves the mystery as to why PrPro wasn't recognizing the full duartion of the videos. (was trying to load a video encoded with a 32-bit codec in a 64-bit program)

Now, this brings up a new issue, at the moment I don't seem to be able to load my AviSynth scripts in the 64-bit version of VirtualDub, which make sense since AviSynth is a 32-bit program. Which means I need to get the 64-bit version of AviSynth if I want to encode my video properly to work in Premiere.

So to make this long confusing story short: I think my problem all along is that I'm working on a 64-bit windows OS using 64-bit programs. I'll make an update here shortly once I test my hypothesis.

--UPDATE 2--
/facedesk Oh...my..frigging god. Yes now everything is 64-bit but now VirtualDub is telling me there's no such function as DirectShowSource in AviSynth. I guess that's one of those plugins that's not 64-bits; which mean I guess I should try and hunt down the ones that have been updated to 64-bits and.....oh my god somebody please help me! For every problem I seem to solve another harder one crops up to take it's place that only drags me further down into a level of coding and computer knowledge that I simply do not possess.

--UPDATE 3--
Keeping everyone abreast of my slow decent into madness. After some more poking and prodding I realized that the DirectShow.dll had not been added to the plugins folder for the 64-bit version, however this seems to have only made VirtualDub realize it can't load .mkv files. Which means I am now at a dead end as I have come full circle from when I started reading the guide yesterday to figure out how to load .mkv files into Premiere using VirtualDub.

--UPDATE 4--
Success....kind of. When life gives you lemons you make lemonade; in this case I needed to take that lemon and chop it up in to smaller pieces for some unknown reason.

The current workaround I've got going is that instead of saving the lossless avi as one file I'm instead saving it as a segmented avi. Premiere is able to read the smaller 1.95 gig files in their entirety as opposed to the 9gig files I had before. Not my ideal solution to the problem but I'll take a victory where I can. I guess this means Premiere simply isn't able to process a 9gig file once it's imported into the program. I'm sure there's something still wrong but at this point I just want to start my project.

[blades34AK]

Oh snaps! I almost forgot about Virtual Dub, thnx Key, I wonder if it has something to do with the latest version was not installed for 64xbit. Anyways I'll try what KeyMaster did and see if thats the case. Well if I have trouble I'll be sure to stop by this thread next time.

[Zarxrax]

KeyMaster:
Its fine to use the 32bit virtualdub to encode. You do need to make sure everything is up to date though. If you want premiere to read the UTvideo file though, you just need to make sure that the 64-bit version of utvideo is installed (because premiere is 64bit, so it needs the 64bit codec).
The avi file is just data, it has nothing to do with being 32 or 64 bit.
The 32 and 64bit versions of the codec output the same data.

To open the video in Avisynth, you should use AviSource rather than DirectShowSource. I think DirectShowSource should work, as long as your utvideo codec is up to date, but its still better to use AviSource.

Back in the day (like, windows 95 days) there were 2gb limits on files. I haven't heard of any limits like that in a LONG time though. But hey, if splitting the files works for you, go for it.

[KeyMaster]

KeyMaster:
Its fine to use the 32bit virtualdub to encode. You do need to make sure everything is up to date though. If you want premiere to read the UTvideo file though, you just need to make sure that the 64-bit version of utvideo is installed (because premiere is 64bit, so it needs the 64bit codec).

That's actually one of my problems, I can't encode anything into the UTvideo 64-bit codec without using the 64-bit version of VirtualDub, which doesn't seem to be able to load any AviSynth files that aren't from the 64-bit version of AviSynth; it just keeps giving me an error saying it doesn't support the .mkv file type I'm trying to open so I'm stuck fighting getting the 32-bit UTvideo files to open in premiere. Which seems to be working when the files are segmented on all but 6 files which Premiere likes to randomly choose which segments it will load. Keeps telling me the files are broken or are of an unrecognized format, yet every file should be the same format, plus it loads files after a few restarts of the program that it previously said it couldn't load.

look, here's the difference between the compression options in both versions of VirtualDub. VirtualDub 32-bit and VirtualDub 64-bit

As you can see in the 32-bit version the only UTvideo codecs listed as available are the 32-bit ones and in the 64-bit version the only UTvideo codecs available are the 64-bit ones.

To open the video in Avisynth, you should use AviSource rather than DirectShowSource. I think DirectShowSource should work, as long as your utvideo codec is up to date, but its still better to use AviSource.

I'm not sure I'm following; if you mean I should take the files already encoded with the 32-bit UTvideo codec and pass them through the 64-bit version of Virtual dub using 64-bit AviSynth scripts that open them using the AviSource function (so that I can use the 64-bit VirtualDub to encode with the 64-bit UTvideo codec) then I've already tried that and gotten the same result of it only reading the first 30 seconds or so of the file.

The best I can describe the problem as now is that I've got all the correct 64-bit software (or at least I think) on my system but none of it seems to want to work together to produce the desired end result. I think it might be because I don't have the base plugins needed for AviSynth but I have no idea what those are other than the DirectShow.dll that came with the 64-bit version of AviSynth. The weak link in the chain now seems to be that I can't get the 64-bit version of AviSynth to work correctly with VirtualDub.

With the 64-bit AviSynth not installed it flat out can't open the AviSynth script files. With it installed it tells me that it can read the AviSynth script but the DirectShow function refuses to open a .mkv file. (or maybe it's VirtualDub; I honestly don't know.)

I also don't remember if I already mentioned this but I'm running the 64-bit version of 7 ultimate if that helps with needed info at all. By the way I really really appreciate you helping me try and sort through this.

[Zarxrax]

I'm saying, it doesn't matter if you encode the video with the 32 or 64 bit version.
If you use 32bit virtualdub and encode with the 32bit codec, you get the EXACT same file as if you use 64bit virtualdub and encode with the 64bit codec.
I recommend you just stick with 32bit avisynth/vdub.

My comment about Avisource was due to me not really reading your post. You can ignore that.

[KeyMaster]

Okay, so I guess it's a problem with Premiere itself that it doesn't want to cooperate.

I actually managed to import all the files after a long game of file based whack-a-mole with Premiere, however now some files are periodically going offline or not ever being loaded when I start up the project; giving me the same error I got when trying to import (that the file is either broken or of an un-supported format) when I try and re-link their import references to the actual files.

There doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to why it's not loading the files; it just randomly picks files it doesn't want to load.

-EDIT-
Actually better question; since I know the full season to this series is available on iTunes (and that the file format would be MP4 I believe) could I just download that and toss it into premiere without all this rencoding to lossless avi that seems to be giving me so much trouble?

[Zarxrax]

I wouldn't recommend that. Those MP4 files are meant for watching, not for editing, so Premiere may not be able to handle them well.
I would also recommend reinstalling premiere, as there may be something screwed up with it.

[KeyMaster]

Yeah, I was afraid it would come to that, ah well. You've been a big help Zarxrax, and I really appreciate it.

I did figure out that Premiere is more agreeable with the FFdshow video encoder and managed to wrangle lossless avi out of that using H.264 lossless. Quality didn't seem to suffer any noticeable difference once imported into Premiere so I guess I'll stick with that for the time being.

I will be reinstalling Premiere like you recommend though to see if I can't get it to work with the UTvideo codec. For now I'm happy with the compromise since it seems to be working. Again a huge thanks for the help and for putting up with my mad rantings.

[blades34AK]

I'm sorry to be annoying with questions, I'm trying my best to get used to this system, but it's about AVI Synth. Do I type the commands on Note Pad or AVI Synth directly. Anyone, Zarx?

[kapparomeo]

Type your commands in Notepad and save them as an .avs file. Alternatively, you can use the program AvsP to edit .avs files directly. AvsP also has a number of useful automated functions; I use it a lot for cropping frames and resizing aspect ratios.