[clustro]

Hi all,

First time poster, but I'm a big fan of the AMV hell series. I have (well, had, as you'll see) all of the AMV Hell series on my computer and it is absolutely fantastic entertainment. I know how difficult it an be to manage and coordinate large projects such as this one (ESPECIALLY over the internet), and I really applaud the effort of this community in working together to create it. Exceptionally well done!

The AMV Hell 0 and / 0 movies I am also a big "fan" of, not because I enjoy the content, but because its just so hilarious to see other's reactions to its horror.

However, Divided by Zero has some bad lolicon stuff in it that seems illegal, so I got rid of it and destroyed the DVD I burned. I did a search for child pornography laws, and the language refers to practically any sort of image of what appear to be minors engaging in sex. :o

My questions can be summarized as:

1. Does anyone definitively know if Divided by Zero, as soul-numbing as it is, ACTUALLY COUNTS as child pornography?
2. Has anyone in this community ever been prosecuted, or threatened with prosecution for aiding in the creation of the movie?
3. And/or has anyone been prosecuted for downloading and possessing it?
4. If not, does anyone why is lolicon an exception to the rule?
5. I realize the goal of the Zero series was for maximum offensiveness, but are there any plans to release a version of Divided by Zero WITHOUT the lolicon, to satisfy legal beagles like myself? It would certainly make things less complicated. I realize I COULD just download it again and cut the parts out myself, but I don't want to download it again when that very act could be a criminal offense.

I really just like to have the videos around to shock friends and listen to the music in the background, but I don't want to risk 10 years in federal prison (and registering as a sex offender) over some gross movie. :(

Those of you that host this thing should be extremely cautious and sure of your legal footing.

Thank you for your time, and keep up the excellent work! :)

-clustro

[abyssion1337]

I don't actually think any laws are broken for the simple fact that no one in anime is a real person in fact I'm sure I'm right on this one STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT ALREADY

[Ken-Chan]

well said

i mean my language would have been more expressive but i think you got the point across

[Kuwabara]

...depends on where u live.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_mino rs

[Ionzorg]

Well said, but I think I'll be a little more expansive on the subject. ::)

Think about the source material: many of these hentai shows depicting "minors engaging in sex" aren't necessarily well-kept secrets, some of them are actually rather popular. If shows just like these can continue to be produced...well, if there is a law in place prohibiting these images, it's a very, very lax one. Though I've never had a problem with people knowing of my possession of the material, the level of concern should vary depending on where you live, as Kuwa demonstrated: we in Canada have never had an issue, but some other countries certainly have, at some point or another. Nevertheless, 0 and /0 have been shown at anime/AMV conventions in many countries, with no legal problems arising; this somewhat puts things in perspective. These questions would probably be best answered by Zarxrax, one of the co-directors. So when he eventually reads this thread (he's not around nearly as often as we are, but he's around), I'm sure you'll get a satisfactory response. *thumbs up*

[Divine Dragoon]

...depends on where u live.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_mino rs


haha and you found that how fast? hahaha :D

[Kuwabara]

.....went to wiki.....typed in "Lolicon".....clicked on the article.....scrolled down to the legal aspects....clicked on that page...read it....then copy/pasted it here... ::)

[Zarxrax]

This is a question that I have personally spent much time pondering as well. The unfortunate matter is that laws (at least in the united states) are not very clear on this matter, and there are currently some cases going through the system regarding it. That said, there are hundreds of thousands of people in the united states who have looked at lolicon, the stuff is bought and sold, and only in a small handful of cases has it ever resulted in legal issues.
If you feel concerned about it, then my best advice to you is to not download and possess it.

Also, when it was playing at awa, I think some cops or security guards standing in the back were getting a good laugh out of it :p

[clustro]

The wikipedia article is what I read when I did my original search. It seemed prudent to ask the community that is directly involved in the making of AMV Hell what legal issue(s) if any they have run into in this matter.

I am perfectly capable of doing (and did do) a google/wiki search for child pornography and lolicon. I also looked at some US government website (I forgot if it was justice department or FBI, but they too had the exact language of child pornography laws on there.) The language (which you yourselves saw on Wikipedia), would rule against the legality of lolicon, and hence, AMV Hell 0 and / 0. But nonetheless, as I knew even beforehand, lolicon is bought and sold in the USA. This was really the sticking point for me: is lolicon an exception, and if you guys know, why is that? In the future, read someone's post, think about it, then type a response, before you tacitly accuse them of lazy ignorance. ::)
In fact, it is somewhat disturbing to think that someone would rely solely upon wikipedia for their legal advice o_O.

Thank you very much Zarxax and Ionzorg for your helpful and concerned replies.

[Useful]

Ork. No need to be snooty about it. We've unofficially banned snootiness on this forum. Though I'm not sure about its legality. It's more law by consensus, AKA "what everyone believes becomes reality".

For the formative:

"The best defense in a court of law is swearing ignorance and knowing the precedent."

Edit: Now I will take this seriously, at least for as long as my brain remains a semi-solid.

No one has collated the answers to your questions completely, so...

1. Looks like Zorg didn't have it COMPLETELY right... http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35952

And Australia isn't safe... http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/12/11/australia-bans-2d-loli-%E2%80%93-simpsons-parody-porn-conviction/

And we'll see about the U.S. http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13488.html
(If you have already found these, apologies)
2. No. At least we haven't heard of it.
3. No. At least we haven't heard of it.
4.See articles at top.
5.As Zarx says, it's your choice.

Also, I have a thought about AMV Hell 0 and /0: you think we could get a ribaldry ruling? It definitely applies, whether or not it holds up is a matter of how hard shelled the jury is.

[abyssion1337]

Like in Good Will Hunting

[Useful]

Right.

[abyssion1337]

It was such a fantastic movie

[Kuwabara]

The wikipedia article is what I read when I did my original search. It seemed prudent to ask the community that is directly involved in the making of AMV Hell what legal issue(s) if any they have run into in this matter.

I am perfectly capable of doing (and did do) a google/wiki search for child pornography and lolicon. I also looked at some US government website (I forgot if it was justice department or FBI, but they too had the exact language of child pornography laws on there.) The language (which you yourselves saw on Wikipedia), would rule against the legality of lolicon, and hence, AMV Hell 0 and / 0. But nonetheless, as I knew even beforehand, lolicon is bought and sold in the USA. This was really the sticking point for me: is lolicon an exception, and if you guys know, why is that? In the future, read someone's post, think about it, then type a response, before you tacitly accuse them of lazy ignorance. ::)
In fact, it is somewhat disturbing to think that someone would rely solely upon wikipedia for their legal advice o_O.

Thank you very much Zarxax and Ionzorg for your helpful and concerned replies.


look....heres the fact of the matter.....you failed to specify where you are from in your original post...therefore, its hard to go into detail...had you said that you where in the states, then i would have gone into more details...but u did not, thus i posted that link because it had more then one country on it, so that you could read the laws for your country for yourself....yes u did say you did do some research...but you never said to what extent...

secondly...i do not use wiki for my legal advise....i use it as a hub....meaning that i go to wiki...read the article...and then read the sources...which i did after i had posted the link....

now....the supreme court ruled on the Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996 involving "virtual child pornography" (ex: lolicon) to be "overbroad and unconstitutional." http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-795.ZS.html

the supreme court also reference the above decision on the case of Michael Williams (found here: http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/06-694.pdf on page 5)

thus meaning that its fine as long as it isnt obscene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_Test ...the decision from whence the test came: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=us/413/15.html) or offered as if real children were involved...

so...



My questions can be summarized as:

1. Does anyone definitively know if Divided by Zero, as soul-numbing as it is, ACTUALLY COUNTS as child pornography?
2. Has anyone in this community ever been prosecuted, or threatened with prosecution for aiding in the creation of the movie?
3. And/or has anyone been prosecuted for downloading and possessing it?
4. If not, does anyone why is lolicon an exception to the rule?
5. I realize the goal of the Zero series was for maximum offensiveness, but are there any plans to release a version of Divided by Zero WITHOUT the lolicon, to satisfy legal beagles like myself? It would certainly make things less complicated. I realize I COULD just download it again and cut the parts out myself, but I don't want to download it again when that very act could be a criminal offense.


1) yes...lolicon is a depiction of a virtual minor have sex....however....u can not be put in jail for it in the USA...
2) ...we havnt heard...
3) same as 2
4) because lolicon is a form of art and doesn't involve real children to make...
5) ...idk what to say...srry...

[Ionzorg]

1. Looks like Zorg didn't have it COMPLETELY right... http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35952

Ah, thanks for that. I should really back-check, and not rely on information I may have looked up several years ago. Probably around the time that Hell 0 came out, in fact. :P

[Divine Dragoon]

well if it was illagle the FBI would have shut down the site and took some action on the people suspected of such charges and just go by the old stand by...if there is grass on the field play ball and if its a drawing or CG fwap away!! hahaha :D

[Kuwabara]

if its a drawing or CG fwap away!! hahaha :D

...as long as its not depicted as a real person in real life... ::)

ex: having a loli that's supposedly Dakota Fanning (just to name someone) banging some dude is illegal...but having one about some 14 year old girl from mars in the future is not...

[abyssion1337]

well if it was illagle the FBI would have shut down the site and took some action on the people suspected of such charges and just go by the old stand by...if there is grass on the field play ball and if its a drawing or CG fwap away!! hahaha :D
the FBI wouldn't care

[Kuwabara]

yes they would....child pornography is a felony...but we're dealing with fictional loli....so we have nothing to worry about....well....in the USA....for now....

[abyssion1337]

they only care about international crime, I believe that you'd get in trouble with US marshals instead

[Kuwabara]

the FBI?...yes they would....they are the ones who investigate this kind of stuff.....

[Ken-Chan]

i have no idea wat the laws are here and i couldnt give a ****!

[Kuwabara]

incase u ever did....

ANYONE depicted under 16 is illegal....fictional or not...

[Ken-Chan]

i wonder wat the laws are in japan

[Kuwabara]

i wonder wat the laws are in japan
...what the **** do you think i am....the hell's librarian....look it up yourself... ::) :P

[Ken-Chan]

i was more talking to myself out of curiosity but i'm not curious enough to care enough to find out

[Kuwabara]

ah...ok then... :P

[Divine Dragoon]

i wonder wat the laws are in japan
...what the **** do you think i am....the hell's librarian....look it up yourself... ::) :P


no not really your just hells loli Expert hahaha!!!! anyway age of consent in Japan is 12 so you get the idea kenny.

[Ken-Chan]

ow ok then 12 seems young but there are places that allow younger and even with the age of consent at 12 japan still has the highest percentage of virgins

[Zarxrax]

Age of consent in Japan is not 12. That will get you arrested. It varies from prefecture to prefecture but it is generally 18.

[imphic]

Likewise, the legality of prostitution varies in Nevada. Counties decide whether or not legal brothels may be made, and they are heavily regulated to prevent pimping, forced prostitution, child prostitution, and spreading STDs.

[Divine Dragoon]

Age of consent in Japan is not 12. That will get you arrested. It varies from prefecture to prefecture but it is generally 18.


I thought the general age was 16? Isn't it like 12 in Roppongi I forget TO GOOGLE!!!!! (dashes to a new tap)

[Issitheus]

Age of consent in Japan is not 12. That will get you arrested. It varies from prefecture to prefecture but it is generally 18.

This coming from the man who might be moving to Japan. Hmm...



incase u ever did....

ANYONE depicted under 16 is illegal....fictional or not...

That's why, no matter how small they are, they're always 18.

[Zarxrax]

Age of consent in Japan is not 12. That will get you arrested. It varies from prefecture to prefecture but it is generally 18.


I thought the general age was 16?

Oops, yea, its generally 16 or 17 in most places, not 18. Similar to the US.

[BopBopBop]

i think its 15 here. cant quite remember.

[Divine Dragoon]

Age of consent in Japan is not 12. That will get you arrested. It varies from prefecture to prefecture but it is generally 18.


I thought the general age was 16?

Oops, yea, its generally 16 or 17 in most places, not 18. Similar to the US.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Age_of_Consent.png

I was right!!!!!!!

[Issitheus]

Okay, so if you live in the Philippines or Yemen, you can legally **** a nine-year-old. I thought we were more civilized than that.
Why just those two?

[Divine Dragoon]

Okay, so if you live in the Philippines or Yemen, you can legally **** a nine-year-old. I thought we were more civilized than that.
Why just those two?


you brought that part up last time this came around. Hehehehahaha!!!! :D

[Adjacent Badger]

Looks to me like Japan is 13 and Philipines is 12.

[Divine Dragoon]

Looks to me like Japan is 13 and Philipines is 12.


You could pass a 12 year old for a 13 Tahaha :D

[Issitheus]

Looks to me like Japan is 13 and Philipines is 12.


You could pass a 12 year old for a 13 Tahaha :D

You would know, you've done it :P

[Divine Dragoon]

Looks to me like Japan is 13 and Philipines is 12.


You could pass a 12 year old for a 13 Tahaha :D

You would know, you've done it :P


hey your the one that kidnapped her!!!! I only bought the candy!! Hahahaha