[NodMan]

Enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpWZ5NpUqNA

[simpleton216]

FPSs aren't hard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNwqRTZT_7o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ufp4hBhA2o

[NodMan]

Not like they used to be. If you ever played Doom 2, Quake 1/2, or Half Life 1 Death Match you would know what I mean. Also there are still some games out there with a great degree of difficulty but nothing like they used to be.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzyi4XF0jKk

[Guthix]

played doom 1 n 2 i dont recall them being hard
didnt play much quake and beraly remember anything exept the double barrel nail gun
ah for half life i might agree the weapons were made simply just to kill [guided rockets,light weapons throwing ****ing grenades,seeker alien rifle and grenades and bloody lazer which can rockoshet or pierce walls] and camping was out of the question just move and hope your bullets hit before the oponents hits the triger

[MADEVIL]

I know I enjoyed some of the older FPS more then some of the crap they put out today

[jinzo64]

so you remember playing gmaes like doom,quake and goldeneye and you are dissapointed by games like modern warfare and battlefield.

[MADEVIL]

most to me seem short, and the companies just milk the games to death now. seems like a lot of wash, rinse, repeat

[Kaiju]

I think shooters should be like like IRL, you get hit once you either dead or incapped, you get hit in the head by ANYTHING, you dead, can only carry so much guns (I.E. Two at a time,Halo was good about this) and ammo at a time, and no indicator between friendly or foe :B

And for fantasy purposes, you could do that, and make the enemies aliens or robots who can take a lot more damage. THAT would be a difficulty of unparalleled proportions.

[jinzo64]

maybe they should introduce it as a new difficulty level called irl.

[MADEVIL]

or they could just stop putting out crappy games

[jinzo64]

but modern warfare is franchise that makes tons of cash so it won't dissapear the only thing we can hope for is improvments

[MADEVIL]

improvements seem on the forgotten list

[jinzo64]

that sadly does seem to be the case but maybe one day they'll make those important improvments

[MADEVIL]

i doubt it, fps is kind of lacking anything fresh these days

[abyssion1337]

The problem is FPS has become almost an exclusively casual genre

[MADEVIL]

it is a far cry from what it is when it first started out, maybe its to gaming main stream now

[abyssion1337]

oh Far Cry was actually pretty good

[MADEVIL]

that is, and it helped put something new for fps

[abyssion1337]

The thing is there's no motivation to change FPS's in any way because they're pandering to the casual crowd, any FPS will make more money by not taking risks.

[MADEVIL]

that is true and they will forever milk COD to death and kill the FPS game beacuse of it

[abyssion1337]

Part of the problem is that "realistic" is too popular but it's pseudo-realism. That's not to say there aren't good ones out there play Metro 2033

[MADEVIL]

that was a good game but didn't see much hype

[abyssion1337]

It got more hype than a lot of indie games get.

[MADEVIL]

true, must indie game are still trying to see the light of day and are working hard to be noticed

[abyssion1337]

They're hard to sell, especially with so many publishers only thinking about what they can milk out of developers.

[simpleton216]

The problem is FPS has become almost an exclusively casual genre

Thats why I like ARMA, you can also get VBS if you want to pay for a thousand dollar civilian license with an FBI background check.

VBS2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lnjDuJ-qRE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgVU8WljP1k

[Gleeman]

I think shooters should be like like IRL, you get hit once you either dead or incapped, you get hit in the head by ANYTHING, you dead, can only carry so much guns (I.E. Two at a time,Halo was good about this) and ammo at a time, and no indicator between friendly or foe :B

And for fantasy purposes, you could do that, and make the enemies aliens or robots who can take a lot more damage. THAT would be a difficulty of unparalleled proportions.

So, you missed America's Army then? Had pretty much everything on your list except the alien robots. Pretty difficult game, probably why not many played it.

This sums up how I feel about 'modern' shooters. (NSFW Language) (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5006-Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-3)

[abyssion1337]

There was a reason not many people played it even though it was free.

[NodMan]

Well someone here got the degree in difficulty of moving about and being a sure shot while explosive jumping or bunny hopping, I was trying to get across. If I wanted a Realistic Shooter I'd get back in the Army. The point was (and the first video proved it well) that old FPSs used to require a ton of dexterity and focus to play somewhat competitively. Now it is just hold Sprint then spray and pray.

There are some decent if not good FPSs such as Natural Selection or Tribes Ascend where you need much more focus then holding your aim key.

[LOLWTFBBQ]

I know Imma get alot of flame for this but I would like to say that Mile High Club on veteran was rather difficult. just sayin

unless of course were talking multiplayer, in which Id like to point out that a steep learning curve doesnt sell well

[jinzo64]

it's been a while since i've played a decent fps the last one i played was goldeneye reloaded.
i'm quite looking forward to getting the wii versions of metroid prime i used to have the gamecube versions but i decide to trade them in when i got my wii.

[abyssion1337]

I'm pretty sure the wii version of medroid prime is a sequel.

[NodMan]

I have personally tried too many. Consoles games are just laughable. However when they make the consoletarded versions first then port them to the PC that is another reason why there isn't any good FPSs lately. When you make FPS games for consoles first there just isn't any room for what made FPSs good on PCs because of the dumbed down support and control interface they need to use to make them for consoles. The idea of making a game easy for anyone to get kills in is fine but they just do not reward people who can do much more than just shoot anymore.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC95Iz8Gtbc

This video's list isn't bad, but not great. It is missing a lot of great FPSs like Warsow, G-Nome, Aliens VS Predator 2, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress for Quake 1, etc.

P.S. If you cannot tell by now its about multiplayer. Story lines are great but after you beat it a couple times, usually multiplayer is what keeps a game alive.

[jinzo64]

I'm pretty sure the wii version of medroid prime is a sequel.

yes i think your right but they did a box set featuring metroid prime 1-3 for the wii it became rare and it's price sky rocketed but it's had a recent price drop so i decided to get a copy along with other m.

[abyssion1337]

I feel I should point out there are good console shooters like Metroid prime, and I should have said this before: If you're using difficulty to determine whether or not a game is good you're doing it wrong.

[Malev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw

This is a big reason for the faults of current modern shooters.

Also check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU

[bloodlover1987]

lol i just saw the if doom was made today vid the other day and yeah it hit the nail on the head on whats wrong with today's shooters

[Zuiichi]

I think L4d2's realism mode on the hardest difficulty is the closest you'll get to being a more realistic game

[Kaiju]

This video's list isn't bad, but not great. It is missing a lot of great FPSs like Warsow, G-Nome, Aliens VS Predator 2, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress for Quake 1, etc.

P.S. If you cannot tell by now its about multiplayer. Story lines are great but after you beat it a couple times, usually multiplayer is what keeps a game alive.

That is my all time favorite shooter.

[NodMan]

Lol I seen those "What if Quakes and Dooms were done today" things before. Sad but true.


I feel I should point out there are good console shooters like Metroid prime, and I should have said this before: If you're using difficulty to determine whether or not a game is good you're doing it wrong.

Not entirely what I am getting at. My point is shooters now do not reward someone for being extremely good at movements or explosive jumping. It basically forces n00bs and pros to just hold their sprint key then shoot. Not rocket jumping (shown greatly in the first video) then using that to get a great speed boost to blind side attack the enemy.

[Pain]

My PC cant eben render the intro ...

[abyssion1337]

Shooters have never been a tremendous mark of skill though, besides a lot of the best shooters like Metroid Prime and Half Life don't need PvP to be, on the other hand, Counterstrike wouldn't really be a game if it were PVE. I'm sure you've noticed that shooters starting getting bad when devs tried to deliver both experiences. We had a conversation on the LoL forums once about how complexity doesn't create depth, the conversation included counterstrike and Chess then I bought up that GO is quite possibly the deepest game ever and only has about 4 rules.

[hatz300]

http://www.youtube.com/embed/-toKfJW6g8Q

[jinzo64]

well my order for metroid prime collection as been sent out along with other m.
sadly my favourite shooter isn't a first person shooter but it's an on rail third person shooter on the n64.
that game is sin and punishment.

[NodMan]

Shooters have never been a tremendous mark of skill though, besides a lot of the best shooters like Metroid Prime and Half Life don't need PvP to be, on the other hand, Counterstrike wouldn't really be a game if it were PVE. I'm sure you've noticed that shooters starting getting bad when devs tried to deliver both experiences. We had a conversation on the LoL forums once about how complexity doesn't create depth, the conversation included counterstrike and Chess then I bought up that GO is quite possibly the deepest game ever and only has about 4 rules.

Lol Counter Striker Global Offensive, is going to be funny as hell. One reason why, cross platform gaming. Last FPS that tried that had to close off PC players because all consoletards thought they were hacking.

[abyssion1337]

That's cause a mouse/keyboard set up instantly gives you an huge advantage over a controller, even a bad player using a pc would outclass the best console players. It wasn't that consoletards thought anyone was hacking, this probably was caught by QA

[AKALink]

One of my favorite shooters of all time is Star Wars Battlefront 2. The game is just fantastic, it is difficult on the last level too if you don't use cheats. My old roommate had it on the ps2 and we played together. He got pissed at me that I was winning and then he told me the most pathetic thing "aghhh... I used to playing this with invincibility on" needless to say we arn't roommates anymore.

[jinzo64]

That's cause a mouse/keyboard set up instantly gives you an huge advantage over a controller, even a bad player using a pc would outclass the best console players. It wasn't that consoletards thought anyone was hacking, this probably was caught by QA

if only that were true i couldn't hit the broad side of barn using a mouse and keyboard for a first person shooter.

[Guthix]

trmendous mark of skill? what about the weapon randomizing? try to kill someone with an eagle who uses a sniper rifle, or on halflife dodge rockets that can change trajectories.or get close enouth to kill someone with a shotgun.
there are many ocasions which you have to depend on skill or luck

[jinzo64]

i like the idea that skill is better than luck.

[MADEVIL]

what abyss said is true, back in the day MS had plan to have major cross platform gaming with the xbox and pc. MS did tests on this FPS games, they took mid level pc players and high level xbox players. in the tests the pc players were winning in high numbers against the xbox players, because of this MS dropped the FPS cross platform game play in fear of killing the xbox online system

[jinzo64]

abyss's statement may be true.
but i still couldn't use a mouse and key board to play a fps to save my life.

[abyssion1337]

Play online PC shooters for like a week, it's a really simple set up

[NodMan]

Yah, even in my worst FPS Counter Strike I still almost break even.

[jinzo64]

erm i think i'll stick to to playing fps's at my mates on his ps3.

[abyssion1337]

you probably also hate freedom and ice cream

[jinzo64]

i like freedom and i love icecream.
i just suck at using the keyboard and a mouse setup for playing first person shooters.
or any kinda of game for that mater.

[abyssion1337]

Did you just say 'any kind of game'? You did, didn't you? So you can't picture using a mouse and keyboard to play an isometric RPG, or what about an RTS, or a MOBA?

Seriously though, just try it for like a couple days, it'll stop being weird and start being great.

[jinzo64]

o.k maybe saying all games was an overstatement.
i might give it another go but i tried playing oblivion on my laptop and had trouble grasping the controls.
i guess i could try somthing.
any suggestions.
i know it would help if i posted the specs of my laptop.
but i don't know where to find them.

[Guthix]

funny thing is ihavnt played with consoles with so long id prolly suck ass now

[jinzo64]

so you have the opposite prob to me.
i can play console games even fps's
but i'm not all that good playing them on p.c's

[NodMan]

Don't tell me you are trying to play FPS with a Laptop Touch Pad... <_<

[jinzo64]

no i borrowed a usb mouse from my dad.

[abyssion1337]

Good, very few people can use the touchpad and most of them can't even use it that well. For my bit what I think people have a hard time adjusting to is the WASD for movement and the fact that lots of games have keys bound to different things, but you'll see a lot of the same E is your action button, Space is jump, R is reload. Those are basics you should just expect to see, I'd suggest playing a very basic FPS to start with like counterstrike.

[Guthix]

im not even sure why do i have a touchpad in my laptop i never use it.

[jinzo64]

thanks for the advice.
maybe i will but for the moment i need to keep my monies for a hotel and my cosplay for amecon 2012.

[AKALink]

I think I'm better with a mouse and keyboard than with a controller. But I'm on an average a more skillful controller player than m&k player. In other words I do moderately well in CoD on xbox and get massacred on Cod on PC

[jinzo64]

on a slightly different but not unrelated note my copy of metroid prime trilogy arrived in the post today.

[AKALink]

Sweet I have metroid prime 1 and 2 and started with 2 on the gamecube. They get pretty had near the end. I never managed to beat them but I did get to the final boss in both of them. The original one is far superior than 2, after playing metroid prime I couldn't get myself to replay echos. Limited ammo ftl.

[jinzo64]

i played the first one when it first came out but got bored with the lack of save points.
then i tried echoes but got stuck but i realy wanted to play them again.

[abyssion1337]

Lol, got bored from lack of save points? Save points were ****ing everywhere. Prime 2 was harder than one but it wasn't nearly as bad as people said, they just didn't like the ammo system but I thought it worked.

[jinzo64]

i had trouble reading the 3d map.
i didn't play metroid prime 2.
it'll be different to playing metroid prime especialy with an ammo system.

[abyssion1337]

Echoes was 2

[jinzo64]

yes your right sorry my bad i got mixed up with my titles.
i had echoes but never got round to playing it i played a bit of metroid prime 3.

[AKALink]

Has anyone seen the trailers for the new kid icarus game. Looks like i might be a solid 3rd person shooter. It even has multiplayer (possibly online)

[jinzo64]

i'm realy looking forward to that one reminds quite abit of sin and punishment

[Ruby150]

Back when FPSs were hard, ya got lost going down a stairwell (reference to TFS playing Serious Sam 3)

[jinzo64]

i think i did that in timesplitters future perfect

[Neomalysys]

If you miss old shooters then get Bioshock Infinite. It was just announced that they are adding a more challenging mode called 1999 mode based on what old school shooter players felt is lacking in current games.

[abyssion1337]

I really still think this discussion is flawed, 'hard' is not a concept we should be striving towards

[AKALink]

Thanks to you guys I've been playing metroid prime 2 again. I'm not a fan of the l and r buttons in this game. I want to see if my computer can run a rom of metroid prime with a xbox 360 controller.

[jinzo64]

I really still think this discussion is flawed, 'hard' is not a concept we should be striving towards

your probably right.
but we need somthing to discuss.

[Guthix]

the point is kinda already prooven that todays shooters are going downhill

[jinzo64]

just coz there nearly all the same and play almost exactly the same and attract the same audiance doesn't mean they've gone downhill there just different.
yes thats it there just different.

[AKALink]

Yes I finally beat Metroid Prime 2. I couldn't beat it when it came out (even though I bought it day 1). I don't know what I did to get the zero suit ending, but 81% probably don't have anything to do with it (less than 14 hours perhaps).

[abyssion1337]

just coz there nearly all the same and play almost exactly the same and attract the same audiance doesn't mean they've gone downhill there just different.
yes thats it there just different.

No, they've certainly gone downhill.

[NodMan]

Yarp, downhill and degraded.