Diddlemuffins
04-07-2012, 12:46 AM
This thread will definitely end up having spoilers. If you haven't finished or even started watching the anime you should leave (unless, you know, you don't give a damn).

Okay, there's a good handful of questions I have regarding the series and I couldn't find a place to get them answered (is it me or is Google becoming less and less useful?). Sure, there's three movies set to come out, but I'd say there's probably half a chance that any question might not get answered. I'll update this first post whenever someone else has a question and any notable theories are suggested.

The questions I'm wondering are:

-Why is Homura able to fly in Madoka's dream in the beginning when she doesn't seem to have that ability (assuming that the dream is an accurate portrayal of the previous timeline).
Theory: Perhaps it isn't an exact interpretation of another timeline, and like her powers that each new timeline adds to she could also be being affected subconsciously.
-When Homura is chasing Kyubey, why does she fire little energy blasts at him and not seem to have this ability any other time? Furthermore, why doesn't she freeze time to catch him?
Theory: Magical girls by default have some kind of ranged attack at their disposal. She used it rather than a gun with a silencer (and at the expense of some magical energy) because she didn't want Kyubey to analyze her abilities or know that she could manipulate time.
-If Kyubey could grant wishes then why can't he solve the entropy problem himself?
-Why can't Kyubey deny Madoka's wish if it goes against what he's trying to acheive?
-Why doesn't Kyubey let witches mature and get systematically beaten down so that energy will keep growing from the witches?
Theory: Maybe he did, but magical girls from before found it unethical.
-In episode 10 ,when Homura makes her first gun run, why does Homura pick up a Desert Eagle XIX, a Remington Model 870, and a box of 9mm rounds (which cannot be used with either gun)?
Theory: Homura is ignorant about guns and made a mistake, which could be a reason she wanted to blow up Octavia so fast after only unloading one clip of the Desert Eagle.
-In episode 8 Homura drops a M26 grenade to make Kyouko let go of her and it's explosion looks like that on a stun grenade. In episode 9 Homura drops a M84 stun grenade in front of Octavia's face and it blows up like a fragmentation grenade. In episode 10 she uses the M26 grenade again and it makes it's proper explosion. I don't think it's really worth theorizing that these bombs' casings can be switched out because there wouldn't even be a point to that even if it were possible. Shaft just made an outright mistake.
-In the last timeline you see of the show Homura uses a bow and arrow like Madoka. Is this somehow connected with her use of energy blasts when you first see her hunting Kyubey (like she just now uses it to help propel her energy better)?
-Why does every character besides Homura seem to be able to summon a weapon?
Theory: To make up for her extra time-manipulating powers? We can probably assume that Homura augmented a normal bow like Mami does with Sayaka's baseball bat, especially since the thing with the baseball bat just seems to break from the themes each magical girl has and doesn't seem to have much relevance to the plot.
- How does Kyubey grant wishes? The big problem here is that if he can give Homura the ability to travel though time, surely there's a fix for entropy in there somewhere (such as sending other matter or energy back in time), which makes his making contracts super inefficient.
Theory: He gets wish-making powers and and the method of turning souls into soul gems from a source he does not fully understand, such as an archaic dimension.

Haar
04-07-2012, 12:47 AM
I have a feeling that Backmask is going to have a field day with this thread.

Arock
04-07-2012, 12:49 AM
god i cant wait till back finds this

Diddlemuffins
04-07-2012, 12:50 AM
I'm not really familiar with the community here, but let's hear it!

regnier
04-07-2012, 12:53 AM
god i cant wait till back finds this
^this

Haar
04-07-2012, 12:55 AM
Copypasta'd straight from Hentechime:



"Let's blatantly plagiarize Kamen Rider Ryuki, compress it into a thirteen episodes, remove most of the characters, **** character development that isn't slapped on at the last minute to add on to the pile of angst, fill it to the brim with angst, pander to "otaku" by making everybody little girls, give everybody ridiculous motives that are just ****ing stupid, a plot that only advances by the time the show is almost over, give it a deus ex machina ending, slap some of the most oblivious and retarded personalities onto every character, and make the ****ty deus ex machina ending incredibly pretentious!"

Not sure exactly how he'll phrase it this time, though.

Backmask
04-07-2012, 01:01 AM
Nope.

Diddlemuffins
04-07-2012, 01:06 AM
Copypasta'd straight from Hentechime:



Not sure exactly how he'll phrase it this time, though.

I have heard claims it rips off of Kamen Rider, but I've never seen that show. As for the motives, who's is ridiculous? Yes, the characters are pretty oblivious and their lines of thinking are whacked, but the motives are still there.

Kaiju
04-07-2012, 01:12 AM
Kyubey is in fact another form of Nyarlathotep the Crawling Chaos, therefore able to cause Madoka to have bizarre dreams, and has near invincible power to grant wishes. Nyarlathotep is infamous for granting deals 'to good to be true' with Mortals only to later cause them to backfire or lie about giving them anything. And the whole Entropy' bull**** is a flat out lie, because he would know the truth about the Universe. Nyarlathotep's motive for making Uber Witch Madoka? It would be the Catalyst for waking up the Old Ones. And if she became 'god' it would cause a Paradox which would awaken Azathoth or release Yog-Sothoth, therefore ending EVERYTHING. That and for his reasons: I dunno, Outer Gods/Old Ones reasons are so alien it's only known to themselves, but I will go with my own interpretation of Nyarlathotep and chalk up for 'Entertainment' or 'lulz' as we mortals have come to know it.

That's my explanation and I am sticking with it '3'

Haar
04-07-2012, 01:13 AM
I'll be honest, I've never seen this show.

Kaiju
04-07-2012, 01:22 AM
I'll be honest, I've never seen this show.

I'd say give it a watch and see for yourself if you like it. Its only 12 episodes, and is WAY different from other Magical Girl anime, rip off of Kamen-Rider or no.

Arock
04-07-2012, 01:39 AM
Nope.

dang that was kinda disappointing

glory of llama
04-07-2012, 02:12 AM
I enjoyed it. Those questions are unanswerable. Chalk em up as plot holes and inconsistencies. There were cute things in peril: after that I just stopped asking questions and ate whatever they fed me. I'm like that with anime. Did I ever tell you the time I own chobits, love Hina, both ah my goddess seasons, and please teacher on DVD? Yeah...you learn to accept the kind of anime person you are and just enjoy it.

*and lucky star +(I'll have to buy azumanga dauphin and panic ponies dash and school rumble eventually)

Kaiju
04-07-2012, 02:19 AM
To be honest the first one I considered is it was a dream, with Homura's time line jumping not only affecting Madoka physically as a Magi, but mentally as well, hence the dreams. It can also be that the creators haven't fully mapped out Homura yet as well.

As for Kyubey, I imagine he would be immune to Time freezing as he gave her that power after all.

The rest of the issues lie with Kyubey himself, which are some of MANY problems with his 'logic' and 'goals'. I've gotten intodebates on the little bastard before with other fine gentlemen on this site, so I'll just drop it and say Kyubey is Nyarlathotep and Madoka Magica is really set in the Cthulhu Mythos, BAM, problem solved.

Haar
04-07-2012, 02:33 AM
I'd say give it a watch and see for yourself if you like it. Its only 12 episodes, and is WAY different from other Magical Girl anime, rip off of Kamen-Rider or no.

Well, I would, if only to see Backmask's reaction to me watching it, but considering I've got a bunch of other things to watch first, it'll have to wait a while.

LOLWTFBBQ
04-07-2012, 04:12 AM
damn, so much talk about the show, now Ill have to watch it just to see how bull**** the guns are

glory of llama
04-07-2012, 05:50 AM
they're magical muskets. no lie.

Backmask
04-07-2012, 05:55 AM
There's also Homerun's arsenal of bull**** like a Desert Eagle that fires 9mm because Gen can't into guns.

jinzo64
04-07-2012, 09:45 PM
This thread will definitely end up having spoilers. If you haven't finished or even started watching the anime you should leave (unless, you know, you don't give a damn).

Okay, there's a good handful of questions I have regarding the series and I couldn't find a place to get them answered (is it me or is Google becoming less and less useful?). Sure, there's three movies set to come out, but I'd say there's probably half a chance that any question might not get answered. I'll update this first post whenever someone else has a question and any notable theories are suggested.

The questions I'm wondering are:

-Why is Homura able to fly in Madoka's dream in the beginning when she doesn't seem to have that ability (assuming that the dream is an accurate portrayal of the previous timeline).
this happens in azumanga well they fly in the new years dream.

-When Homura is chasing Kyubey, why does she fire little energy blasts at him and not seem to have this ability any other time? Furthermore, why doesn't she freeze time to catch him?
Theory: Magical girls by default have some kind of ranged attack at their disposal. She used it rather than a gun with a silencer (and at the expense of some magical energy) because she didn't want Kyubey to analyze her abilities or know that she could manipulate time.
or maybe it's because because anime characters can be thick like goku falls in to lava eventhough he can fly.

-If Kyubey could grant wishes then why can't he solve the entropy problem himself?
Because there are some problems magic can't solve

-Why can't Kyubey deny Madoka's wish if it goes against what he's trying to acheive?
Because he's a genie right and they must grant all wishes unless it would cause direct harm or death to humans or animals.

-Why doesn't Kyubey let witches mature and get systematically beaten down so that energy will keep growing from the witches?
Theory: Maybe he did, but magical girls from before found it unethical.
Because he likes loli

I Don't know if any off thats true asd i havn't seen the anime but I wanted to answer your questions.

I want to watch this anime it looks interesting.

abyssion1337
04-08-2012, 02:22 AM
This thread will definitely end up having spoilers. If you haven't finished or even started watching the anime you should leave (unless, you know, you don't give a damn).

Okay, there's a good handful of questions I have regarding the series and I couldn't find a place to get them answered (is it me or is Google becoming less and less useful?). Sure, there's three movies set to come out, but I'd say there's probably half a chance that any question might not get answered. I'll update this first post whenever someone else has a question and any notable theories are suggested.

The questions I'm wondering are:

-Why is Homura able to fly in Madoka's dream in the beginning when she doesn't seem to have that ability (assuming that the dream is an accurate portrayal of the previous timeline).
-When Homura is chasing Kyubey, why does she fire little energy blasts at him and not seem to have this ability any other time? Furthermore, why doesn't she freeze time to catch him?
Theory: Magical girls by default have some kind of ranged attack at their disposal. She used it rather than a gun with a silencer (and at the expense of some magical energy) because she didn't want Kyubey to analyze her abilities or know that she could manipulate time.
-If Kyubey could grant wishes then why can't he solve the entropy problem himself?
-Why can't Kyubey deny Madoka's wish if it goes against what he's trying to acheive?
-Why doesn't Kyubey let witches mature and get systematically beaten down so that energy will keep growing from the witches?
Theory: Maybe he did, but magical girls from before found it unethical.
1. Homura can fly in the dream because it's a dream, you're going a little too out there assuming it's an accurate portrayal of the previous line, it's probably just Madoka embellishing fact in her dream
2. Might be a plot hole, don't really remember the specific part you're talking about
3. Kyubei can grant wishes because he's an SA lifeform, he's not magic so he can't just magic all the problems away.
4. He could but her wish doesn't actually go against his goals
5. The one had some wording problems that made it unclear, but it's shown rather than outright explained, if witches get too powerful no one can stop them, they destroy everything preventing him from making more magical girls, and the ones he can make are too weak to fight them and he can't get energy from witches until a magical girl kills it, it's far better for his goals to only let them get moderately powerful so he can still get energy from them.

Guthix
04-08-2012, 06:23 PM
i find it hilarious no one wished that kyubei goal was fuffiled [aka universe not gradualy being destroyed] to end all the farce , it was showed that you can wish for another person and rewrite time n space with those wishes.

Diddlemuffins
04-10-2012, 05:45 AM
There's also Homerun's arsenal of bull**** like a Desert Eagle that fires 9mm because Gen can't into guns.

I don't really know my guns, but how can you tell what kind of bullets are being shot out and/or loaded into the guns? A general size or shape or codes on the casings?

Diddlemuffins
04-10-2012, 06:22 AM
1. Homura can fly in the dream because it's a dream, you're going a little too out there assuming it's an accurate portrayal of the previous line, it's probably just Madoka embellishing fact in her dream
2. Might be a plot hole, don't really remember the specific part you're talking about
3. Kyubei can grant wishes because he's an SA lifeform, he's not magic so he can't just magic all the problems away.
4. He could but her wish doesn't actually go against his goals
5. The one had some wording problems that made it unclear, but it's shown rather than outright explained, if witches get too powerful no one can stop them, they destroy everything preventing him from making more magical girls, and the ones he can make are too weak to fight them and he can't get energy from witches until a magical girl kills it, it's far better for his goals to only let them get moderately powerful so he can still get energy from them.

1.I'm just trying to weigh how it's supposed to be portrayed, I'm not saying I think it's straight fact or not.
3.I'm not quite sure what you mean by "SA" (googled a list of acronyms and didn't get much out of it), but he makes a note of saying that Madoka can make a more extravagant wish because her potential was valuable. That insinuates that he has assets to be weighing, so why do he and his brothers not bend reality in a more pleasing direction on a decision? In some complex way it may not be considered "magic" because the rules of the universe are changed rather than coexisting, but that change is apparently somehow possible.
4.This one pretty much ties into #3. He wants it how he wants it, otherwise he would have changed it.
5.It's my understanding that he doesn't "collect" energy, he just wants it released into wherever (he disposes of grief seeds as a symbol of trust). Human emotion being able to break the chain of energy and endlessly grow witches and familiars if not stopped to me suggests more is just being made out of nothing. If these rules are all that need apply, then what stops a squad of magical girls from continuously beating down a medium-powered witch, cleansing their gems, immediately starting the battle anew, and repeating the cycle (applying rest times and disposals as needed)?

Diddlemuffins
04-10-2012, 06:52 AM
I'm not familiar with any of this Nyarlathotep or Cthulu stuff that people keep talking about, but from what I'm hearing I'm not drawing a connection. You could try to compare Kyubey to the devil or some other demon because of his lent-out powers and contracts, but that wouldn't seem too appropriate either because the true nature or purpose of all these beings is vague and you can't apply a meaningful agenda to them.

1. Screw people over through their own folly.
2. ???
3. Profit!

Kyubey is different in two ways though. He has an agenda that he has presented. To liken him to Nyarlathotep or something you could propose that entropy is an elaborate ruse torture Homura, but that contradicts the other point, which is that his plan WAS broken through. Try to turn it around by saying that Homura was ready to submit anyway and you're left with the first question. Why? Homura ends up living happily ever after to a degree and no matter how you look at it the only possibly reward left there is self-satisfaction that he crushed her will for a second.

When it comes right down to it there's no point in comparing him to an other-worldly torture creature, it defies any point of the show.

abyssion1337
04-11-2012, 07:44 PM
SA means sufficiently advanced, I wouldn't compare him to either the devil or Nyarly, He's not evil. People need to stop making that mistake and only thinking in terms of black and white. You minds are too closed. Will comment more when I'm not in 'just got back from work' mode

Backmask
04-11-2012, 09:34 PM
I don't really know my guns, but how can you tell what kind of bullets are being shot out and/or loaded into the guns? A general size or shape or codes on the casings?

She pulls out a box of 9mm rounds and loads her Desert Eagle with said rounds if I'm not mistaken. As for Kaiju's Nyarlathotep theory, well, it's blatantly wrong and you'd have to be dense as hell to not understand that.

Kaiju
04-11-2012, 09:59 PM
Makes more sense than Kyubei's 'thermodyamics' bull****.

Backmask
04-11-2012, 10:07 PM
Makes more sense than Kyubei's 'thermodyamics' bull****.

Sadly, it does.

abyssion1337
04-12-2012, 03:30 AM
I can buy the thermodynamics bull****. The kind of physics PMMM uses is thankfully solidly in the realm of things we don't understand very well can can only theorize about, BECAUSE that's all we can do taking what our science knows and applying it to Kyubei is wrong and stupid. Because I've failed numerous times to get just exactly what being SA means (partly my fault) I'll just post the TVTropes page for it, Basically it means that their technology is so much greater than ours that they seem to have godlike powers to us and we can't possibly understand their limitations or how it even works. It's still technology it's just so far ahead of ours we can't even perceive it as such. Will talk more later, gotta go to bed, work tomorrow.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SufficientlyAdvancedAlien

Backmask
04-12-2012, 03:38 AM
I can buy the thermodynamics bull****. The kind of physics PMMM uses is thankfully solidly in the realm of things we don't understand very well can can only theorize about, BECAUSE that's all we can do taking what our science knows and applying it to Kyubei is wrong and stupid. Because I've failed numerous times to get just exactly what being SA means (partly my fault) I'll just post the TVTropes page for it, Basically it means that their technology is so much greater than ours that they seem to have godlike powers to us and we can't possibly understand their limitations or how it even works. It's still technology it's just so far ahead of ours we can't even perceive it as such. Will talk more later, gotta go to bed, work tomorrow.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SufficientlyAdvancedAlien

Using TVTropes as a source? I would post an argument; however, this just invalidates everything in the post.

Diddlemuffins
04-12-2012, 06:53 AM
She pulls out a box of 9mm rounds and loads her Desert Eagle with said rounds if I'm not mistaken. As for Kaiju's Nyarlathotep theory, well, it's blatantly wrong and you'd have to be dense as hell to not understand that.

I ended up on this Wikipedia page of all the weapons used in the series and then checked for the the episode in question. It seems the thing in question is the part of episode 10 when she makes her first gun run at a shady-looking company called "Shafuto Industries" (Oh, those jokers...). She pulls three things out of the locker: a Desert Eagle Mark XIX, a Remington Model 870, and some 9mm ammo designed for a Beretta. Clearly you cannot use those bullets on either of those guns. Perhaps she just didn't know anything about guns and picked up the wrong ammo (you never see her use more than one clip in the following battle with Octavia before she decides to use a pipe bomb to blow her up) or she made more stops for guns than they showed. It's worth mentioning that she uses a Beretta later on (earlier episode) when she turns Kyubey into swiss cheese, though even if she takes all her items back in time like this was Majora's Mask it still leaves the question of why she picked them up when she did.

HeyHeyHeyStayOuttaMyShed
04-12-2012, 06:58 AM
Why is Kyubey so adorable yet so menacing?

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lizcmg4Prd1qexcmzo1_500.jpg

Diddlemuffins
04-12-2012, 07:49 AM
Hey, maybe that's just an appearance he takes on to get little girls to like him... and that appearance would be a small magical cat/rabbit hybrid with the eyes of a doll (and dolls are just ****ing creepy).

Diddlemuffins
04-12-2012, 07:50 AM
I've updated the first post a bit for those who have subscribed to this thread and may not have noticed.

abyssion1337
04-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Using TVTropes as a source? I would post an argument; however, this just invalidates everything in the post.
It really doesn't and saying it does is basically you saying you don't like my explanation so you're looking for an excuse to handwave it away. Incidently I'm not using it as a source I'm using it as a way to show what an SA lifeform is because they'll have a simple to understand definition to go with it and plenty of examples.


Hey, maybe that's just an appearance he takes on to get little girls to like him... and that appearance would be a small magical cat/rabbit hybrid with the eyes of a doll (and dolls are just ****ing creepy).

I'm pretty sure at some point that they explain that that is in fact the case.

Backmask
04-12-2012, 09:40 PM
It really doesn't and saying it does is basically you saying you don't like my explanation so you're looking for an excuse to handwave it away. Incidently I'm not using it as a source I'm using it as a way to show what an SA lifeform is because they'll have a simple to understand definition to go with it and plenty of examples.

"I'm not using it as a source I'm using it as a way to show what an SA lifeform is because they'll have a simple to understand definition to go with it and plenty of examples."
That is, by definition, a source.

And I'm not "handwaving" it away. Rather, I felt that your explanation for QB's complete massacre of thermodynamics was more or less bad. What you practically said was, "He's allowed to change the entire mechanics of a theory from our planet because he's an alien." The issue with this is that it wasn't QB stating the "workings" of entropy as if it were a fact in his alien world; however, the issue was that he just botched it entirely. It's hard to explain; however, you can tell whenever someone's bull****ting and when someone's spouting their alien facts.

abyssion1337
04-13-2012, 02:13 AM
"I'm not using it as a source I'm using it as a way to show what an SA lifeform is because they'll have a simple to understand definition to go with it and plenty of examples."
That is, by definition, a source.

And I'm not "handwaving" it away. Rather, I felt that your explanation for QB's complete massacre of thermodynamics was more or less bad. What you practically said was, "He's allowed to change the entire mechanics of a theory from our planet because he's an alien." The issue with this is that it wasn't QB stating the "workings" of entropy as if it were a fact in his alien world; however, the issue was that he just botched it entirely. It's hard to explain; however, you can tell whenever someone's bull****ting and when someone's spouting their alien facts.No that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that he's allowed to have knowledge from way beyond the boundaries of what we know/think we know about thermodynamics. You're problem is that you're taking theoretical science and holding it up as absolute truth, when the truth really is that what we know about thermodynamics could possibly be entirely wrong. Yes, it's clear the writers didn't understand thermodynamics all that well, BUT I think Kyubei's explanation holds up. Hear me out, he's trying to explain entropy to a 14 year old girl, in all seriousness the dumbed down, not very accurate explanation he gave is exactly how you'd explain that concept to a child. Moreover if your suspension of disbelief doesn't even stretch this far then you shouldn't be watching anything more fictional than the evening news.

Backmask
04-13-2012, 02:27 AM
No that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that he's allowed to have knowledge from way beyond the boundaries of what we know/think we know about thermodynamics. You're problem is that you're taking theoretical science and holding it up as absolute truth, when the truth really is that what we know about thermodynamics could possibly be entirely wrong. Yes, it's clear the writers didn't understand thermodynamics all that well, BUT I think Kyubei's explanation holds up. Hear me out, he's trying to explain entropy to a 14 year old girl, in all seriousness the dumbed down, not very accurate explanation he gave is exactly how you'd explain that concept to a child. Moreover if your suspension of disbelief doesn't even stretch this far then you shouldn't be watching anything more fictional than the evening news.

Okay, with that explanation, I understand what your saying; however, my main point was this: "Yes, it's clear the writer (Gen Urobuchi) didn't understand thermodynamics all that well." I could understand how that got lost in the argument because of how I used QB to refer to the writer.

Diddlemuffins
04-13-2012, 03:24 AM
Okay, I guess I got lost somewhere in you guys' wording and thought you were talking about the subtitles (went ahead and deleted said comment).

Could anyone explain why exactly Kyubey's explanation of entropy was faulty if the universe works under the theories as we understand them? (Jesus, I'm asking people to dissect entropy...)

Backmask
04-13-2012, 03:35 AM
Okay, I guess I got lost somewhere in you guys' wording and thought you were talking about the subtitles (went ahead and deleted said comment).

Could anyone explain why exactly Kyubey's explanation of entropy was faulty if the universe works under the theories as we understand them? (Jesus, I'm asking people to dissect entropy...)

Here (http://www.darkmirage.com/2011/03/06/the-physics-of-puella-magi/). This probably won't give all the info needed; however, it's late and I don't necessarily wish to explain it...

Guthix
04-13-2012, 09:27 AM
eh... i feel silly to be caught up in this.
replying to back source, the guys said he doesnt understand how feelings = power. since feeling do require brain functions, thus it uses a power source, but the area affect or the affects outside the human body of this power is largely unknown.But i have heard several rumors/experiments by manipulating things just by thinking.
why lolis? aparantly teens have the greatest emotional storms within the human lifespan.
The whole ability to grant wishes, but not use it yourself.Well as much as i need to rewatch to make my points more solid, i do believe QB said they dont posses emotions.So there can be a possibility they dont posses human logic, its like the answer is there, but they dont know it.QB is not human and expecting him thinking like one can be a mistake, not to mention the universal law of nothing is perfect stands.
The farm, while logicaly it may be a solution, but in the real world industrial made meat is not the same as a grown chicken, which randomly eats rocks in addition to is daily meal.Furthemore recreating natural like conditions would take more effort, then simply hunting down suitable lolis one by one.
In my conclusion, its an anime let this bull**** slide already.

abyssion1337
04-13-2012, 10:07 AM
Here (http://www.darkmirage.com/2011/03/06/the-physics-of-puella-magi/). This probably won't give all the info needed; however, it's late and I don't necessarily wish to explain it...

I'm going to just point out that the argument that time travel, a completely fictional concept, defies entropy, a completely theoretical concept, is probably he most inherently flawed statement I've ever read.



Besides, dissecting the physics and focusing on that aspect you could not have missed the point of PMMM more. The physics are a tiny and ultimately in consequential part of the story and if that's the deal breaker for you, you probably shouldn't have watched PMMM in the first place.

Backmask
04-13-2012, 09:58 PM
I'm going to just point out that the argument that time travel, a completely fictional concept, defies entropy, a completely theoretical concept, is probably he most inherently flawed statement I've ever read.

What the actual **** did I just read? This is probably the most inherently flawed statement I have ever read. I'm just going to point out that the argument was applied to Madoka, which attempted to apply fictional concepts to a completely theoretical concept. Congratulations, you have effectively argued against your own point.

As for this:

Besides, dissecting the physics and focusing on that aspect you could not have missed the point of PMMM more. The physics are a tiny and ultimately in consequential part of the story and if that's the deal breaker for you, you probably shouldn't have watched PMMM in the first place.

"you could not have missed the point of PMMM more"
Sweet jesus, the only point in PMMM was just your usually sacrifice bull****. Outside of that, it was just a successful attempt at pandering to the prominent "otaku" via blatant plagiarism and angst. Currently, your making PMMM out to be something that's deep, thought-provoking, and complex, which is something that PMMM is not. If you can't really watch a show without completely dissecting it and making out to be incredibly pretentious, then you probably shouldn't watch any sort of media out there.

Diddlemuffins
04-13-2012, 11:30 PM
Here (http://www.darkmirage.com/2011/03/06/the-physics-of-puella-magi/). This probably won't give all the info needed; however, it's late and I don't necessarily wish to explain it...

Okay, so the problem isn't the science of entropy, it's the measures and technology Kyubey and his brothers would take to fight it and why time travel can't be factored in if it was given to Homura.

Okay, let's just say Kyubey establishes a link with an arcane demon lord in another dimension or something... I got nothing more legit then that right now, but I'm still not gonna believe it's straight plagiarism until I at least watch Kamen Rider. Even then I'll probably still like it though, make of that what you may. I'm sure you and I both will watch the upcoming Madoka movie that will supposedly expand on the series to see what happens, lol.

Backmask
04-13-2012, 11:35 PM
Okay, so the problem isn't the science of entropy, it's the measures and technology Kyubey and his brothers would take to fight it and why time travel can't be factored in if it was given to Homura.

Okay, let's just say Kyubey establishes a link with an arcane demon lord in another dimension or something... I got nothing more legit then that right now, but I'm still not gonna believe it's straight plagiarism until I at least watch Kamen Rider. Even then I'll probably still like it though, make of that what you may. I'm sure you and I both will watch the upcoming Madoka movie that will supposedly expand on the series to see what happens, lol.

Trust me, watch Kamen Rider Ryuki, then compare the two. They are strikingly similar. Most people saw the similarities from the start. Hell, Gen Urobuchi stated that "it's okay to have a few similarities," then this image was made to make Ryuki-fans' lives a lil' easier...
http://i.imgur.com/excB4.jpg

Diddlemuffins
04-14-2012, 12:04 AM
Trust me, watch Kamen Rider Ryuki, then compare the two. They are strikingly similar. Most people saw the similarities from the start. Hell, Gen Urobuchi stated that "it's okay to have a few similarities," then this image was made to make Ryuki-fans' lives a lil' easier...
http://i.imgur.com/excB4.jpg

I've seen that before... and by those straight facts I should be less attracted to the show, but I'm not. I had even got two figmas after the fact.

Diddlemuffins
04-14-2012, 12:05 AM
Uh oh, is there some kind of code I should have put in to make that smaller?

Kaiju
04-14-2012, 12:06 AM
like this?

Diddlemuffins
04-14-2012, 12:09 AM
like this?

Nevermind, in the quote area the picture was blown up to full size when I first posted it, but now it's fine.

abyssion1337
04-14-2012, 12:29 AM
Back, you're juts being an idiot at this point, I have not contradicted my own statement, I'm saying the guy who wrote the physics of PMMM made a couple good points but started talking out of his ass when he started talking about how time travel interacts with entropy, if you can't understand that then I don't think you actually understand thermodynamics (makes sense I already think you're an idiot)

2. PMMM is a deconstruction and a pretty good one, I'm absolutely certain you missed the point, since you're just here to be hateful I'm going to ask you nicely, please leave you're not contributing anything but bile to the discussion.

I wouldn't even have a problem if you were actually here having a discussion, so far someone makes a point and you handwave it without even making a counterpoint, clearly your bias is too strong and you're too immature to continue with a legitimate discussion about this subject.

Backmask
04-14-2012, 12:40 AM
Back, you're juts being an idiot at this point, I have not contradicted my own statement, I'm saying the guy who wrote the physics of PMMM made a couple good points but started talking out of his ass when he started talking about how time travel interacts with entropy, if you can't understand that then I don't think you actually understand thermodynamics (makes sense I already think you're an idiot)

2. PMMM is a deconstruction and a pretty good one, I'm absolutely certain you missed the point, since you're just here to be hateful I'm going to ask you nicely, please leave you're not contributing anything but bile to the discussion.

At this point, you're just taking everything too harshly. Nothing I have said has been "bile." I haven't been hateful. I haven't been the one calling my opposition an idiot because I disagree with said opposition. I haven't been the one "adding bile" an anyway. Unless of course, you count some citation other than TVTropes to be bile. Actually, you seem to be quite the hypocrite at this point. You've been vomiting forth a few insults, using petty I'm-never-wrong arguments (Which, I admit that I, too, abuse this argument on numerous occasions), and just blatantly warping wording so that you are correct. If your way of dealing with opposing points is to say "Just leave because I can't really think of anything to say," then preach your immature word to your deaf choir. By the way, going by the statement that you made and I had quoted, you had, indeed, contradicted your own argument, which is something that you're going to have to acknowledge.

In reply to the edit:

I wouldn't even have a problem if you were actually here having a discussion, so far someone makes a point and you handwave it without even making a counterpoint, clearly your bias is too strong and you're too immature to continue with a legitimate discussion about this subject.

Now, I'm sorry, but this is just horrifically wrong. The only time I "hand waved it away" was when used a completely unreliable source. Everything else has been given proper responses and civil replies (which is currently something that you aren't doing). I will admit that I have a negative bias against Madoka; however, I've kept it away from this discussion. You on the other hand believe that people who don't like Madoka are "idiots" and either "missed the point" (Which is ironic because you clearly did) or "are wrong for not liking it," and this has been shown through your immature and unrefined arguments. If anything is halting any real, legitimate discussion here, it's you, your wall of hypocrisy, and your lack of maturity.

By the way, thanks for sticking through this, Diddle.

abyssion1337
04-14-2012, 02:43 AM
I don't at all believe that hating Madoka makes you an idiot, I think your behavior makes you one. :)

Now, I didn't use an unreliable or wrong source and you've been handwaving the whole time. Now I admit I've tossed some things at you that last post, because I'm fed up with your ****. I don't use I'm never wrong arguments, not even a little, you are, I'm just disagreeing with you, if you'd actually put forth a real honest to goodness point I'd be very happy but mostly you aren't even arguing against anything except just spouting that you don't like Modoka, I even understand what you don't like about it but you take your hate steps further than reasonable. Basically I think you're being a ****ing baby over this who's getting butthurt because Madoka is insanely popular and you can't see why it's good, and it doesn't have the excuse of being a dumb but flashy action show going for it. In fairness it is a little pretentious but not nearly as much as Ergo Proxy and that's always a plus.

Also point out how I contradicted my own argument, if you cant do that then simply saying it doesn't make it true.

Backmask
04-14-2012, 02:50 AM
I don't at all believe that hating Madoka makes you an idiot, I think your behavior makes you one. :)

How has my behavior made me into an idiot? Better yet, how has my behavior made me into an idiot, when you yourself has been the one on the immature and irrational side?

Guthix
04-14-2012, 07:49 AM
How has my behavior made me into an idiot? Better yet, how has my behavior made me into an idiot, when you yourself has been the one on the immature and irrational side?

the topic is madoka plot holes , your shoving kamen raider down our throats, personaly i dont even like those types of series.pretty sure your just hatin.[and i havnt seen anyone else bitch about it in hell]

Backmask
04-14-2012, 04:16 PM
the topic is madoka plot holes , your shoving kamen raider down our throats, personaly i dont even like those types of series.pretty sure your just hatin.[and i havnt seen anyone else bitch about it in hell]

It's only been mentioned two or three times, and it has only been discussed once. It should be noted that the one discussion lasted for three posts because Diddlemuffins, the person that made the thread, questioned the plagiarism, and the other time(s) was just mentioning the word "plagiarism" and leaving it at that. There was no "forcing Kamen Rider down our throats." It's just you irrationally taking things out of proportion.

"and i havnt seen anyone else bitch about it in hell"
Because there's only two people on Hell who watch Kamen Rider.



Now, I didn't use an unreliable or wrong source and you've been handwaving the whole time.
TVTropes is an unreliable source.



I don't use I'm never wrong arguments, not even a little, you are, I'm just disagreeing with you, if you'd actually put forth a real honest to goodness point

But you are. All you do. All you ever do is just say, "No that's wrong and you're dumb" You aren't even putting any points into the arguments. You've just been disagreeing with me without leaving any form of justification.



you aren't even arguing against anything except just spouting that you don't like Modoka, I even understand what you don't like about it but you take your hate steps further than reasonable.

Go back and read the thread. I've participated. I've argued against your arguments. Right now, you're just posting baseless insults at an attempt to justify your own immaturity.


Basically I think you're being a ****ing baby over this who's getting butthurt because Madoka is insanely popular

So I'm not allowed to hate something when that thing is popular? I'm not allowed to hate something when it ripped off a show that I like? That some broken logic.


and you can't see why it's good, and it doesn't have the excuse of being a dumb but flashy action show going for it.

Now, that is an argument that is used by people who are angered that their show is getting insulted. This same phrase is used by people who can't necessarily justify why they think their show is good.



Also point out how I contradicted my own argument, if you cant do that then simply saying it doesn't make it true.

Go back and read the first post I made about said contradiction (The one about time-travel and entropy). It takes basic reading comprehension to understand how it was contradictory.

abyssion1337
04-14-2012, 05:26 PM
Wow, you're still doing it, you're talking a lot but you're not saying anything. but let's go down your laundry list of fail and closemindedness that you've written.

But first: Let's nip this one in the bud though:
1. I wasn't using tvtropes as a source and even if I was you don't get to handwave an argument because you think a source is unreliable ESPECIALLY when you haven't used any sources yourself
2. Tvtropes isn't unreliable, if my friend's psychology professor will not only accept it as a source but comment on how TVtropes has nailed every aspect of the incredibly multifaceted construct that is modern narrative and in some cases life then starts a study on TVtropes itself, you have to give it some credit. Even if you don't accept any of that, you still don't get to dictate what is and isn't a reliable source. So get off your high horse cause it's made of dung and rotting meat.

I actually make it a point to justify what I say, and while I'm not perfect just because you don't like or agree with an explanation doesn't mean you get to pretend it doesn't exist

I still have yet to see you actually say anything except, 'the physics suck' or 'they're really bad copycats' that's just whining and not actually discussing and that's why I've run out of patience with you, because you're saying you're in the discussion when you're really in the corner crying very loudly.

You're perfectly entitled to hate something that's popular, you've once again completely missed the point of what I've said. I'm saying that you're just being angry, and if you're just going to be angry you're not going to make any sense when talking about a thing because none of your points (if you have any) are getting through

I think I've made it perfectly clear why I think Madoka is good. What I'm saying there is that for some reason you seem completely unable to understand why I think it's good, which is strange I understand why you don't like something. When I don't like something I try figure out why people like it so much, you're not even trying.

I will not go back and look at it, you're always going on about how people need to make points (funny since you seem to be unable to make any yourself) and now you're just saying "it's flawed because it's flawed" sorry it doesn't work like that.

Now you're become a pretty big distraction in a conversation about plot holes, that's all we were talking about. Bad thermodynamics and whether or not they ripped off something you like aren't plot holes. You're just being argumentative and belligerent, and now you've pulled me into being argumentative and belligerent when all I was trying to do was contribute to a discussion and give my own analysis on something.

Guthix
04-14-2012, 07:04 PM
say it once we will nod with aprooval, say twice we will stay silent, say 3rd time your just whining, i give no ****s that its a kamen raider rip off, your forgeting that not everyone watches what you do and not everyone events WANTS to watch what you do. we got the point you dont like madoka stfu already.and i havnt seen any bitching from vej.yes its not original, yes it has logic flaws, yes its not epic as much as ppl make it seem but nothing in this forsaken world is so give it a rest will ya ^^ [and yes i am bored]

Backmask
04-14-2012, 07:23 PM
2. Tvtropes isn't unreliable, if my friend's psychology professor will not only accept it as a source but comment on how TVtropes has nailed every aspect of the incredibly multifaceted construct that is modern narrative and in some cases life then starts a study on TVtropes itself, you have to give it some credit. Even if you don't accept any of that, you still don't get to dictate what is and isn't a reliable source. So get off your high horse cause it's made of dung and rotting meat.
My main issue with this argument is that it's a "BUTMYFRIEND'SFRIEND" argument. It may be true; however, I could say that my friend's psychology professor did not accept it and completely bashed it for being entirely incorrect. See how it works? And I say that TVTropes is a horrible source because it's filled with enraged fanboys (Such as yourself) who bend the wording of something so that it fits with the desired trope. TVTropes would have been a reliable source back in its early days; however, now that its moderation has gone down the drain, it's just horrific.


I actually make it a point to justify what I say, and while I'm not perfect just because you don't like or agree with an explanation doesn't mean you get to pretend it doesn't exist

The only justification you have given is the "QB's of an advanced species." Everything else has been you being a frustrated, autistic fanboy who doesn't like it when people don't like something that you like. Every single justification that I have given has been followed by you "hand waving it away," which is then followed by you saying that I haven't been giving any justification/contributing to the argument.



I still have yet to see you actually say anything except, 'the physics suck' or 'they're really bad copycats' that's just whining and not actually discussing and that's why I've run out of patience with you, because you're saying you're in the discussion when you're really in the corner crying very loud

Funny, I have yet to see you say something other than "Oh, your wrong and I'm just gong to leave it at that," or "You're just missing the point because you're stupid." You accuse me of not actually discussing; however, how am I to discuss whenever you are acting like a four year old who isn't getting his way? There's no discussion because you are incapable of accepting differing opinions.


You're perfectly entitled to hate something that's popular, you've once again completely missed the point of what I've said. I'm saying that you're just being angry, and if you're just going to be angry you're not going to make any sense when talking about a thing because none of your points (if you have any) are getting through

I'm not "missing the point" of what you're saying because there is no point in what your saying. As I've said before, your not arguing or discussing. You're bitching because someone doesn't like something that you like, and you've made it pretty clear that you have no intention of having a discussion.


I think I've made it perfectly clear why I think Madoka is good. What I'm saying there is that for some reason you seem completely unable to understand why I think it's good, which is strange I understand why you don't like something. When I don't like something I try figure out why people like it so much, you're not even trying.

You haven't and you never do. In all of your arguments that you are ever involved in, you do NOTHING but disagree with the opposition and you never bring any reason for it. Either your autism is impeding on your ability to actually have a discussion, or your fanboy-ness is impeding on your ability to actually have a discussion.


I will not go back and look at it, you're always going on about how people need to make points (funny since you seem to be unable to make any yourself) and now you're just saying "it's flawed because it's flawed" sorry it doesn't work like that.

I usually don't bring up how people need to make points. I haven't really brought that up in this argument either. You're just putting false details into this argument because your getting desperate and don't like to accept when you're wrong. And I have yet to see you say anything other than "It's good because it's good." As for the bolded part, it just proves that you don't want to accept when your wrong.


Now you're become a pretty big distraction in a conversation about plot holes, that's all we were talking about. Bad thermodynamics and whether or not they ripped off something you like aren't plot holes. You're just being argumentative and belligerent, and now you've pulled me into being argumentative and belligerent when all I was trying to do was contribute to a discussion and give my own analysis on something.

You are the one who has been carrying this argument by bringing up nothing but rage upon those who disagree with you. At this point, your proving more and more to me that you can't handle being incorrect, which is natural for any human; however, you take it to a new level. You refuse to take responsibility for your actions, you refuse to actually say anything other than "NOPEYOURWRONG." You are just the epitome of hypocrisy and immaturity. I'd recommend that you work on your repetitive argument-style and your impaired communication skills before you attempt to actually argue.



say it once we will nod with aprooval, say twice we will stay silent, say 3rd time your just whining, i give no ****s that its a kamen raider rip off

I've brought it up once. Everybody else has been the ones to bring it up, so...


your forgeting that not everyone watches what you do and not everyone events WANTS to watch what you do.

Not really. Did you read my post? I said that only two people on this site actually watch the show(s).


we got the point you dont like madoka stfu already.and i havnt seen any bitching from vej.yes its not original, yes it has logic flaws, yes its not epic as much as ppl make it seem but nothing in this forsaken world is so give it a rest will ya

Your just talking out of your ass at this point, aren't you? And Vej doesn't really talk much on the threads. Usually, he's in the chatbox, and he hasn't even seen Ryuki yet, so there's that, too.


[and yes i am bored]

So you are talking out of your ass?

abyssion1337
04-14-2012, 08:18 PM
wow too far man, and not even true in pretty much anything you've said. You're not even arguing anymore, you were barely arguing in the first place but now you're just being a dick, can I get a flag on that play?

MADEVIL
04-14-2012, 08:25 PM
Now now, you kids play nice or I'll send you both to your room with no dinner

Guthix
04-14-2012, 09:14 PM
@ back
you brought it up more then once and posted that pic of comparison twice

my point was not how many have seen but that you bring something up that no one seems to be interested in

im also usualy in the chat box , still no bitching.if hes not valid for not seeing the full thing why do you mention 2 ppl in the firs place?

too lazy to fire up ud for that one.if its an expresion which is telling a person to stop acting like a smartass retro fanboy over trivial things then yes
@ mad
whats for dinner?

Backmask
04-14-2012, 09:31 PM
@ back
you brought it up more then once and posted that pic of comparison twice

my point was not how many have seen but that you bring something up that no one seems to be interested in

im also usualy in the chat box , still no bitching.if hes not valid for not seeing the full thing why do you mention 2 ppl in the firs place?

too lazy to fire up ud for that one.if its an expresion which is telling a person to stop acting like a smartass retro fanboy over trivial things then yes
@ mad
whats for dinner?

1. There's five pages. It takes about thirty seconds to look through said pages. If you could count, you'll notice that the image was posted once.
2. It's damn well near impossible to infer that from your post due to how vaguely written it was.
3. I mentioned him because you said that nobody watches that kind of show. I mentioned him because he does indeed watch shows such as that. I posted it because it perfectly made your disgustingly worded post moot.
4. Please re-word that because I can barely understand what you were trying to say and who you're targeting it towards. (Though, I assume the "fanboy" is targeted towards me)

Guthix
04-14-2012, 09:45 PM
1. im not talking this thread only you posted that pic before
2.pretty sure the "WANT" part was clear
3.in the industry 2 ppl mean nothing,why industry? because they spread anime n stuff.
4.i use ud[ urban dictionary] to look up internet expresions, cuz i have no idea what talking out of my ass means.as for the latter,im assuming you like kamen raider to some degree otherwize you wouldnt point out that **** gave birth to ****.fanboy for short.smartass well you always are one and retro if i recall its old ,reminds me of the show with those wierd beetle warriors.anywho in conclusion the second part was me saying if telling a fanboy to stop being butthurt about his show,which was copied, is considered talkin from my ass ,then indeed i am talking from my ass.

Backmask
04-14-2012, 10:10 PM
1. im not talking this thread only you posted that pic before
2.pretty sure the "WANT" part was clear
3.in the industry 2 ppl mean nothing,why industry? because they spread anime n stuff.
4.i use ud[ urban dictionary] to look up internet expresions, cuz i have no idea what talking out of my ass means.as for the latter,im assuming you like kamen raider to some degree otherwize you wouldnt point out that **** gave birth to ****.fanboy for short.smartass well you always are one and retro if i recall its old ,reminds me of the show with those wierd beetle warriors.anywho in conclusion the second part was me saying if telling a fanboy to stop being butthurt about his show,which was copied, is considered talkin from my ass ,then indeed i am talking from my ass.

1. The other times I mention it isn't even in a serious, forcing-it-down-others'-throats tone. I just do it to **** with Arock.
2. It wasn't. Your wording is hardly ever clear.
3. This is a small, community run website not the industry, kiddo.
4. I asked if you were talking out of your ass because you jumped into the conversation and started blasting away a bunch of random, poorly worded statements, which was then followed by you saying that you were bored. I'd attempt to argue some other points; however, Rosetta Stone might be needed if I hope to read the alien language that fills number four.

Guthix
04-14-2012, 10:33 PM
1.so why did you post it here? arock hasnt posted
2.ppl get used to it
3.the reason i pointed out the industry cuz they can actualy give a **** about what your saying.[but wont],im not sure how else less retarded [ since you dont read otherwize] i can explain how insignificant that statement was.
4.ill disagree that theyre random, i guess numbering is required.poorly worded-yes.the boredom part is that i dont usualy go for anime discusions, but since im bored [and i rarely see you post more then 3 times a day], i figured to swap some sparks.um... the key to the alien language is if a word has a incorrect letter check to the right or left of that letter, rare capitals and many custom short words.

Backmask
04-14-2012, 10:38 PM
1.so why did you post it here? arock hasnt posted
3.the reason i pointed out the industry cuz they can actualy give a **** about what your saying.[but wont],im not sure how else less retarded [ since you dont read otherwize] i can explain how insignificant that statement was.

1. I posted it here because it helped explain a case that Diddlemuffins brought up. Posting the image was a quick and efficient way to explain it all.
3. Your logic. It doesn't make any since.

Two and four can just be cast aside at this point.

Arock
04-14-2012, 10:41 PM
1. The other times I mention it isn't even in a serious, forcing-it-down-others'-throats tone. I just do it to **** with Arock.

and i bring up madoka cause i always laugh at what you have to say about it

Guthix
04-14-2012, 10:42 PM
1. I posted it here because it helped explain a case that Diddlemuffins brought up. Posting the image was a quick and efficient way to explain it all.
3. Your logic. It doesn't make any since.

Two and four can just be cast aside at this point.

lol wut?

jinzo64
04-14-2012, 10:44 PM
Random question attack
How many Seasons of this anime are there?

Backmask
04-14-2012, 10:45 PM
lol wut?

My one grammatical mistake compared to this:
"i use ud[ urban dictionary] to look up internet expresions, cuz i have no idea what talking out of my ass means.as for the latter,im assuming you like kamen raider to some degree otherwize you wouldnt point out that **** gave birth to ****.fanboy for short.smartass well you always are one and retro if i recall its old ,reminds me of the show with those wierd beetle warriors.anywho in conclusion the second part was me saying if telling a fanboy to stop being butthurt about his show,which was copied, is considered talkin from my ass ,then indeed i am talking from my ass."


Random question attack
How many Seasons of this anime are there?

One season with two or three, upcoming movies.

Guthix
04-14-2012, 10:45 PM
1

Guthix
04-14-2012, 10:46 PM
My one grammatical mistake compared to this:
"i use ud[ urban dictionary] to look up internet expresions, cuz i have no idea what talking out of my ass means.as for the latter,im assuming you like kamen raider to some degree otherwize you wouldnt point out that **** gave birth to ****.fanboy for short.smartass well you always are one and retro if i recall its old ,reminds me of the show with those wierd beetle warriors.anywho in conclusion the second part was me saying if telling a fanboy to stop being butthurt about his show,which was copied, is considered talkin from my ass ,then indeed i am talking from my ass."

yes but im not bitching about "poor writting" ^^

Backmask
04-14-2012, 10:49 PM
yes but im not bitching about "poor writting" ^^

The bitching is because of the plethora of mistakes that you make. Let's compare a plethora to a single, homophone-based mistake.

Guthix
04-14-2012, 10:51 PM
no one is perfect, and if i werent doing mistakes how would you know that you type good?

Backmask
04-14-2012, 10:55 PM
no one is perfect, and if i werent doing mistakes how would you know that you type good?

I'm assuming that you mean, "If I weren't making mistakes, how would you know if you are actually typing correctly?"

Well, I would know that I'm typing well because I'd be taking what I've learned in school into consideration.

jinzo64
04-14-2012, 10:55 PM
Thanks for that.
So 1 season and 2/3 movies i'll have to keep an eye out for them.

Guthix
04-14-2012, 11:01 PM
I'm assuming that you mean, "If I weren't making mistakes, how would you know if you are actually typing correctly?"

Well, I would know that I'm typing well because I'd be taking what I've learned in school into consideration.

broader terms back-kun, its more as im part of the worlds typing mistakes which shows you when you type decently.

jinzo64
04-14-2012, 11:04 PM
broader terms Kurosaki-kun, its more as im part of the worlds typing mistakes which shows you when you type decently.

I Corrected Guts post.
lol

Diddlemuffins
04-15-2012, 10:37 AM
1. The other times I mention it isn't even in a serious, forcing-it-down-others'-throats tone. I just do it to **** with Arock.
2. It wasn't. Your wording is hardly ever clear.
3. This is a small, community run website not the industry, kiddo.
4. I asked if you were talking out of your ass because you jumped into the conversation and started blasting away a bunch of random, poorly worded statements, which was then followed by you saying that you were bored. I'd attempt to argue some other points; however, Rosetta Stone might be needed if I hope to read the alien language that fills number four.

Wait, don't buy Rosetta Stone, it's expensive and useless.

Diddlemuffins
04-15-2012, 11:02 AM
I am the god of this thread and I demand friendship!

Guthix, you gotta understand how easy it was to get into this pickle to begin with. Nobody's gonna force you to write neatly, but Backmask and Abyssious1337 are having trouble communicating with legible sentences. Expecting others to get used to your way of talking is like being a regular at McDonalds and speaking Spanish to an employee that only knows English. I know I'm sounding like one hell of a preachy douche, but I'm not sure how else it can be done.

Guthix
04-15-2012, 11:11 AM
a god without power aint a god

i cant realy be in a picle since i dont give it my all, yes i know not all will decide to chew my writting, i dont blaim them.
preacy douche? if your implying my opinion ive seen similar comments so much ive stoped caring,yet i will say its futile.

Diddlemuffins
04-15-2012, 11:14 AM
a god without power aint a god

i cant realy be in a picle since i dont give it my all, yes i know not all will decide to chew my writting, i dont blaim them.
preacy douche? if your implying my opinion ive seen similar comments so much ive stoped caring,yet i will say its futile.

I've made this thread and I can destroy it!

Guthix
04-15-2012, 11:27 AM
feel free to beat the dead horse ^^

Diddlemuffins
04-15-2012, 11:29 AM
That metaphor doesn't apply to what I just said at all.

Guthix
04-15-2012, 11:31 AM
well do you see back or abyss bickering here anymore? the topic flew away

Diddlemuffins
04-15-2012, 11:40 AM
well do you see back or abyss bickering here anymore? the topic flew away

I would give it at least a few days of no comments before calling a thread dead and it hasn't even been one. Backmask has said he has a job and everyone otherwise has some kind of schedule on their hands I'm sure, I'm not gonna take any meaning out of someone logging out.

Guthix
04-15-2012, 11:51 AM
whatever floats you boat man, im off to draw something

Diddlemuffins
04-15-2012, 12:00 PM
whatever floats you boat man, im off to draw something

You pretend to have given up on this thread but you're now reading this comment.

abyssion1337
04-15-2012, 06:49 PM
I'm ok with Madoka not doing all that well on gun details/mechanics, they got the basics, bullets go in, bullets come out at a significantly faster speed. It's not like Noir which is essentially gun porn at some points.

Guthix
04-15-2012, 07:18 PM
for the question why homura doesnt have a weapon:
there was a discusion in the chat box about this. we came to a conclusion that the weapon type a girl gets depends on theyr wish.
mami wished to live so she gained abillity of reproduction aka unlimited guns.
kyoko wished ppl would folow her fathers preaching thus obtaining the ability to bind with those red chains
sayaka wished to heal the musicial so she got fast healing which complimented her short sword
homura on the other hand wished to go back in time to protect madoka so she got a time shield.
as for homuras bow i dont recall it in the discusion,neither do i remember it my self.
oh and lol at your last comment didle

Arock
04-15-2012, 09:58 PM
for the question why homura doesnt have a weapon:
there was a discusion in the chat box about this. we came to a conclusion that the weapon type a girl gets depends on theyr wish.
mami wished to live so she gained abillity of reproduction aka unlimited guns.
kyoko wished ppl would folow her fathers preaching thus obtaining the ability to bind with those red chains
sayaka wished to heal the musicial so she got fast healing which complimented her short sword
homura on the other hand wished to go back in time to protect madoka so she got a time shield.
as for homuras bow i dont recall it in the discusion,neither do i remember it my self.
oh and lol at your last comment didle

damn that discussion was a long time ago

Diddlemuffins
04-16-2012, 12:52 AM
for the question why homura doesnt have a weapon:
there was a discusion in the chat box about this. we came to a conclusion that the weapon type a girl gets depends on theyr wish.
mami wished to live so she gained abillity of reproduction aka unlimited guns.
kyoko wished ppl would folow her fathers preaching thus obtaining the ability to bind with those red chains
sayaka wished to heal the musicial so she got fast healing which complimented her short sword
homura on the other hand wished to go back in time to protect madoka so she got a time shield.
as for homuras bow i dont recall it in the discusion,neither do i remember it my self.
oh and lol at your last comment didle

I wasn't even sure how to form their abilities and themes into a question. Kyubey mentions that the wish's intentions affect the powers, but it's a bit hard to see where their powers' limits are. Reproduction representing Mami seems pretty off because she wanted to be saved, not brought back from the dead (plus that might have saved her in the fight with Charlotte you'd think). Homura only has a bow after Madoka changes the universe, so the significance there is debatable. Maybe she crafted it in honor of Madoka, maybe Madoka made her able to use one. Neither idea really makes much sense though.

Diddlemuffins
04-23-2012, 02:31 AM
Welp, now we have a dead thread.

Sir Fluffykins
10-10-2012, 08:02 PM
"N-N-N-N-NECRO POST"

I just finished this now, enjoyed the show but...the ending...god I hate anime endings. Basically Kaiju is/was right, explains the Witches being replaced with Old Dudes, because they're the "OLD ONES"

I wrote a huge rant about the ending then deleted it, just pointless, going to watch Spice & Wolf Episode 1 now, hope that series doesn't end in some crazy "Girl becomes god, makes everything ok, but leaves the flow of time in tact so everyone still dies when they're meant to and for some reason girl stops exsitng and was never born"

Guthix
10-11-2012, 06:53 AM
not sure how to respond to that

Sir Fluffykins
10-11-2012, 07:18 PM
I can buy into Madoka becoming a magic-girl Mercy Angel, with PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS, re-writing reality so instead of Magical Girls souls getting corrupted and becoming Witches, they're saved, but die instead, spawning Wraiths too, but why does Madoka stop existing? Why does her higher plane of existance mean she never had a life before it. It's one little stupid thing that seemed to make the final episode neeedlessly complicated/poetic.

She accended, we get it, but why now do we have a mother having vague memories of the daughter she never had, a little brother recalling an older sister that was never born. I know why, to show the audience the family is okay and never truely forgot her, but to me, never knowing their own daughter is insanely tragic. It's not really something anyone can argue, it's just personal opinion and thought I should write it down before moving on to the next show.

I do find it funny at the end of the universe she even "saves" herself from becoming a witch, basically commiting cosmic suicide, causing the death of the universe and the birth of the next one.

glory of llama
10-11-2012, 09:55 PM
Yeah, that was unnecessarily tragic. If she is now god of magical girls, she can totally magic up a divine birth and save her friend and have a living component. Or something.

This is similar to why I didn't like the ending of mahoromatic. Slightly different tone, though.

abyssion1337
10-12-2012, 01:52 AM
It's not unnecessarily tragic though, the story at its very cor is a tragedy and a damn masterfully pulled off one. It's very appropriately tragic.

Backmask
10-12-2012, 01:54 AM
It's not unnecessarily tragic though, the story at its very cor is a tragedy and a damn masterfully pulled off one. It's very appropriately tragic.

grimdark for the sake of being grimdark =/= "masterful tragedy"

I'll leave it at that.

abyssion1337
10-12-2012, 02:32 AM
It's not grimdark for the sake being grimdark, it's supposed to be a tragedy, it's honestly like you don't understand it at all, like you're not even trying to be fair. I'm sorry if you don't like tragedy but some people do and sometimes it's an appropriate way to tell the story.

Actually no, I'm not going to let you off that easily, you're not looking at it in any way that would lead me to believe that you can carry on an intelligent discussion about it, you're hyperbolic, and when you don't have a counterpoint to a someone saying something good about it you brush it off and pretend it doesn't exist, hate if you want but be fair to it. I don't look at ever individual aspect of something I hate in a negative light if it has something that's actually good about it, no one should because it means they're not looking at the thing well enough to have an informed opinion. And that's how you come off, as someone railing against something you don't know enough about to have an opinion.

Backmask
10-12-2012, 04:29 AM
It's not grimdark for the sake being grimdark, it's supposed to be a tragedy, it's honestly like you don't understand it at all, like you're not even trying to be fair. I'm sorry if you don't like tragedy but some people do and sometimes it's an appropriate way to tell the story.

Watching blind sheep wallow in a pile of filth that they believe is gold can only be described as pathetic. I take it that Madoka your first Gen Urobuchi story? I say this because anybody that isn't an edgy teen can comprehend that Urobuchi's writing is formulaic and stale. His always has his characters die off a few moments after they get their (hamfisted) development in an attempt to force the audience's emotions. This is an unruly method that shows immaturity and incompetence. Compare it to, say, Kei Amemiya's death in Jin-Roh. Her character evolved throughout the movie and featured a twist that, though was surprising, wasn't abrupt. Through her character we get to see an actual dilemma in Constable Kazuki Fuse's story in which he must make the choice between soldier or bystander with the undertones that once your involved you can't get out. Her involvement in the story had meaning, her development was well paced, and her death had subtle undertones that were only evident to the viewer through inspection, as opposed to being filled with preachy overtones. To continue on with the subject of Urobuchi's characters, let us move on to the characters themselves as opposed to how he uses them. Let's discuss the characters of Madoka, Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka, and Homura. Mami and Kyouko's characters were the second most flawed characters in Madoka, in my opinion. It's obvious that they were to serve as the "seasoned veteran" characters with Mami assuming somewhat of a guiding role while Kyouko served a role to show how Magical Girls rivaled one another (Before we got to her, we only saw a glimps of that with Homura and Mami.) Mami's character was extremely two-dimensional in comparison to, say, Lisa Lisa from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 2: Battle Tendency. They both were veterned characters who were to guide the characters (Mami = Sayaka and Madoka, Lisa Lisa = Joseph and Caeser). Mami's character, however, was just that, a guide. That was it. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with this if it weren't for the fact that she was given some "development" before her inevitable and obligatory death. If you are going give a character development, do not do it in this last minute manner. At the very least, build up to this moment, show some signs of her development. Do whatever you can, but at the least avoid it. Lisa Lisa's character was great. Her emotions were shown when they were necessary. For example, look at the time when Caeser died. How does she react? Well, at first we are lead to believe that she cares not for the death of her pupil; however, when she "fought" the vampire (The one that says "OK" at the end of his sentences) We see a great deal of her character as she attempts to hold in her grief and gets an obviously lump in her throat. As for Kyouko, let's talk about her relationship/rivalry with Sayaka by comparing them to that of Dio Brando and Jonathan Joestar's relationship/ rivalry. Kyouko and Sayaka's relationship/ rivalry developed too quickly for it to even be considered well written. It was a spur of the moment ordeal in which Kyouko suddenly became Sayaka's best buddy who would do anything for her, while completely disregarding their past confrontations. Dio and JoJo's relationship/rivalry grew into a monumental rivalry. One was a charismatic con-artist from a family of con-artists while the other was just a gullible child who wanted nothing more than to do the right. We see Dio and JoJo's relationship go from your average squabble in between brothers to a monumental rivalry of tremendous proportions. JoJo overcame the bounds of being a human to fight against Dio, a genetically superior vampire. After all, JoJo was acting out of grief for his father's death and could care less about what happened to himself. We see more of how JoJo felt when he "killed" Dio. He struggled when he "killed" him. He still, despite all of what had occurred, thought of Dio as family and couldn't let go of this fact. Their rivalry was great. We didn't have rushed development with them. Their rivalry still had their brotherly bond involved, and wasn't black-and-white such as Kyouko and Sayaka's. As for Homura, well, her character was just poor in general. Her motives, though clear, were generally idiotic and went along the lines of, "I will save one person, at the price of the world." This was just insanity, especially because this occurred because Madoka was nice to her in class. I generally dislike characters such as Homura (Characters whose motives are just bi-products of extreme overreactions.), so I might have a bit of a bias, thus, I won't get into her character to avoid a biassed review of her character. Madoka herself is a fairly average, but has barely any focus placed onto her. It would have been more impactful to give her some more inner monologues, so we could get more from her character and find out what she thinks about the specific situation. Unfortunately, we barely get much of her thoughts on being a magic girl. Especially around episode 8 or so in which the show pretty much becomes Homura Magika. This leads into another issue, the ending. Let us compare Enrico Pucci's universal reset to Madoka's universal reset. Madoka's universal reset was a pretentious deus ex machina, another unruly literary tactic. The animation of it all happening was completely unnecessary and ruined the entire moment in that it was blatantly just SHAFT using up the rest of their budget and Shinbo being a horrible director, as usual. The scene would have been better if it just acted as a reset, rather than Madoka doing some TTGL ****. It's like Scar Symmetry's Morphogenesis music video. The directing of the music video detracted from a great song. You see, Enrico's ability to reset the universe was explained before hand and the audience was well aware of it. We also weren't subjected to some tedious panels to lead into this, we just got one page to focus on it, and that was it. It wasn't delivered poorly either. In fact, the universal reset lead a monumental change in the world that affected the entirety of the story (as opposed to some minor effect such as Madoka's Demons = new Witches and Madoka = Magical Escort to Magic Girl Valhalla) The universal reset (The one that led into Steel Ball Run) occurred because of the defeat of the main antagonist, as opposed to occurring to combat the antagonist due to the author writing himself into a corner. By the way, never use that He-Doesn't-Like-It-So-He-Must-Hate-The-Whole-Genre "argument." It just makes you look like an immature child who can't handle differing opinions. Although, the shoe fits in this situation.


Actually no, I'm not going to let you off that easily, you're not looking at it in any way that would lead me to believe that you can carry on an intelligent discussion about it, you're hyperbolic, and when you don't have a counterpoint to a someone saying something good about it you brush it off and pretend it doesn't exist, hate if you want but be fair to it. I don't look at ever individual aspect of something I hate in a negative light if it has something that's actually good about it, no one should because it means they're not looking at the thing well enough to have an informed opinion. And that's how you come off, as someone railing against something you don't know enough about to have an opinion.
I see that you're still using that strung-out, hypocritical garbage that is essentially a glorified way of saying, "ur a faget" as an argument.

Arock
10-12-2012, 04:35 AM
Watching blind sheep wallow in a pile of filth that they believe is gold can only be described as pathetic. I take it that Madoka your first Gen Urobuchi story? I say this because anybody that isn't an edgy teen can comprehend that Urobuchi's writing is formulaic and stale. His always has his characters die off a few moments after they get their (hamfisted) development in an attempt to force the audience's emotions. This is an unruly method that shows immaturity and incompetence. Compare it to, say, Kei Amemiya's death in Jin-Roh. Her character evolved throughout the movie and featured a twist that, though was surprising, wasn't abrupt. Through her character we get to see an actual dilemma in Constable Kazuki Fuse's story in which he must make the choice between soldier or bystander with the undertones that once your involved you can't get out. Her involvement in the story had meaning, her development was well paced, and her death had subtle undertones that were only evident to the viewer through inspection, as opposed to being filled with preachy overtones. To continue on with the subject of Urobuchi's characters, let us move on to the characters themselves as opposed to how he uses them. Let's discuss the characters of Madoka, Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka, and Homura. Mami and Kyouko's characters were the second most flawed characters in Madoka, in my opinion. It's obvious that they were to serve as the "seasoned veteran" characters with Mami assuming somewhat of a guiding role while Kyouko served a role to show how Magical Girls rivaled one another (Before we got to her, we only saw a glimps of that with Homura and Mami.) Mami's character was extremely two-dimensional in comparison to, say, Lisa Lisa from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 2: Battle Tendency. They both were veterned characters who were to guide the characters (Mami = Sayaka and Madoka, Lisa Lisa = Joseph and Caeser). Mami's character, however, was just that, a guide. That was it. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with this if it weren't for the fact that she was given some "development" before her inevitable and obligatory death. If you are going give a character development, do not do it in this last minute manner. At the very least, build up to this moment, show some signs of her development. Do whatever you can, but at the least avoid it. Lisa Lisa's character was great. Her emotions were shown when they were necessary. For example, look at the time when Caeser died. How does she react? Well, at first we are lead to believe that she cares not for the death of her pupil; however, when she "fought" the vampire (The one that says "OK" at the end of his sentences) We see a great deal of her character as she attempts to hold in her grief and gets an obviously lump in her throat. As for Kyouko, let's talk about her relationship/rivalry with Sayaka by comparing them to that of Dio Brando and Jonathan Joestar's relationship/ rivalry. Kyouko and Sayaka's relationship/ rivalry developed too quickly for it to even be considered well written. It was a spur of the moment ordeal in which Kyouko suddenly became Sayaka's best buddy who would do anything for her, while completely disregarding their past confrontations. Dio and JoJo's relationship/rivalry grew into a monumental rivalry. One was a charismatic con-artist from a family of con-artists while the other was just a gullible child who wanted nothing more than to do the right. We see Dio and JoJo's relationship go from your average squabble in between brothers to a monumental rivalry of tremendous proportions. JoJo overcame the bounds of being a human to fight against Dio, a genetically superior vampire. After all, JoJo was acting out of grief for his father's death and could care less about what happened to himself. We see more of how JoJo felt when he "killed" Dio. He struggled when he "killed" him. He still, despite all of what had occurred, thought of Dio as family and couldn't let go of this fact. Their rivalry was great. We didn't have rushed development with them. Their rivalry still had their brotherly bond involved, and wasn't black-and-white such as Kyouko and Sayaka's. As for Homura, well, her character was just poor in general. Her motives, though clear, were generally idiotic and went along the lines of, "I will save one person, at the price of the world." This was just insanity, especially because this occurred because Madoka was nice to her in class. I generally dislike characters such as Homura (Characters whose motives are just bi-products of extreme overreactions.), so I might have a bit of a bias, thus, I won't get into her character to avoid a biassed review of her character. Madoka herself is a fairly average, but has barely any focus placed onto her. It would have been more impactful to give her some more inner monologues, so we could get more from her character and find out what she thinks about the specific situation. Unfortunately, we barely get much of her thoughts on being a magic girl. Especially around episode 8 or so in which the show pretty much becomes Homura Magika. This leads into another issue, the ending. Let us compare Enrico Pucci's universal reset to Madoka's universal reset. Madoka's universal reset was a pretentious deus ex machina, another unruly literary tactic. The animation of it all happening was completely unnecessary and ruined the entire moment in that it was blatantly just SHAFT using up the rest of their budget and Shinbo being a horrible director, as usual. The scene would have been better if it just acted as a reset, rather than Madoka doing some TTGL ****. It's like Scar Symmetry's Morphogenesis music video. The directing of the music video detracted from a great song. You see, Enrico's ability to reset the universe was explained before hand and the audience was well aware of it. We also weren't subjected to some tedious panels to lead into this, we just got one page to focus on it, and that was it. It wasn't delivered poorly either. In fact, the universal reset lead a monumental change in the world that affected the entirety of the story (as opposed to some minor effect such as Madoka's Demons = new Witches and Madoka = Magical Escort to Magic Girl Valhalla) The universal reset (The one that led into Steel Ball Run) occurred because of the defeat of the main antagonist, as opposed to occurring to combat the antagonist due to the author writing himself into a corner. By the way, never use that He-Doesn't-Like-It-So-He-Must-Hate-The-Whole-Genre "argument." It just makes you look like an immature child who can't handle differing opinions. Although, the shoe fits in this situation.


I see that you're still using that strung-out, hypocritical garbage that is essentially a glorified way of saying, "ur a faget" as an argument.

do you feel better after typing all of that?

Backmask
10-12-2012, 04:37 AM
do you feel better after typing all of that?

I felt better knowing that the Titans beat the Steelers while I was typing all of that.

Gleeman
10-12-2012, 04:44 AM
http://i.imgur.com/VlgIZ.jpg

Just saying...every core plot's been written before, and will be written again.

Backmask
10-12-2012, 04:47 AM
http://i.imgur.com/VlgIZ.jpg

Just saying...every core plot's been written before, and will be written again.

I was referring to the quality of the writing, not Madoka's contraversy.

Sir Fluffykins
10-12-2012, 05:38 AM
Watching blind sheep wallow in a pile of filth that they believe is gold can only be described as pathetic. I take it that Madoka your first Gen Urobuchi story? I say this because anybody that isn't an edgy teen can comprehend that Urobuchi's writing is formulaic and stale. His always has his characters die off a few moments after they get their (hamfisted) development in an attempt to force the audience's emotions. This is an unruly method that shows immaturity and incompetence. Compare it to, say, Kei Amemiya's death in Jin-Roh. Her character evolved throughout the movie and featured a twist that, though was surprising, wasn't abrupt. Through her character we get to see an actual dilemma in Constable Kazuki Fuse's story in which he must make the choice between soldier or bystander with the undertones that once your involved you can't get out. Her involvement in the story had meaning, her development was well paced, and her death had subtle undertones that were only evident to the viewer through inspection, as opposed to being filled with preachy overtones. To continue on with the subject of Urobuchi's characters, let us move on to the characters themselves as opposed to how he uses them. Let's discuss the characters of Madoka, Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka, and Homura. Mami and Kyouko's characters were the second most flawed characters in Madoka, in my opinion. It's obvious that they were to serve as the "seasoned veteran" characters with Mami assuming somewhat of a guiding role while Kyouko served a role to show how Magical Girls rivaled one another (Before we got to her, we only saw a glimps of that with Homura and Mami.) Mami's character was extremely two-dimensional in comparison to, say, Lisa Lisa from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 2: Battle Tendency. They both were veterned characters who were to guide the characters (Mami = Sayaka and Madoka, Lisa Lisa = Joseph and Caeser). Mami's character, however, was just that, a guide. That was it. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with this if it weren't for the fact that she was given some "development" before her inevitable and obligatory death. If you are going give a character development, do not do it in this last minute manner. At the very least, build up to this moment, show some signs of her development. Do whatever you can, but at the least avoid it. Lisa Lisa's character was great. Her emotions were shown when they were necessary. For example, look at the time when Caeser died. How does she react? Well, at first we are lead to believe that she cares not for the death of her pupil; however, when she "fought" the vampire (The one that says "OK" at the end of his sentences) We see a great deal of her character as she attempts to hold in her grief and gets an obviously lump in her throat. As for Kyouko, let's talk about her relationship/rivalry with Sayaka by comparing them to that of Dio Brando and Jonathan Joestar's relationship/ rivalry. Kyouko and Sayaka's relationship/ rivalry developed too quickly for it to even be considered well written. It was a spur of the moment ordeal in which Kyouko suddenly became Sayaka's best buddy who would do anything for her, while completely disregarding their past confrontations. Dio and JoJo's relationship/rivalry grew into a monumental rivalry. One was a charismatic con-artist from a family of con-artists while the other was just a gullible child who wanted nothing more than to do the right. We see Dio and JoJo's relationship go from your average squabble in between brothers to a monumental rivalry of tremendous proportions. JoJo overcame the bounds of being a human to fight against Dio, a genetically superior vampire. After all, JoJo was acting out of grief for his father's death and could care less about what happened to himself. We see more of how JoJo felt when he "killed" Dio. He struggled when he "killed" him. He still, despite all of what had occurred, thought of Dio as family and couldn't let go of this fact. Their rivalry was great. We didn't have rushed development with them. Their rivalry still had their brotherly bond involved, and wasn't black-and-white such as Kyouko and Sayaka's. As for Homura, well, her character was just poor in general. Her motives, though clear, were generally idiotic and went along the lines of, "I will save one person, at the price of the world." This was just insanity, especially because this occurred because Madoka was nice to her in class. I generally dislike characters such as Homura (Characters whose motives are just bi-products of extreme overreactions.), so I might have a bit of a bias, thus, I won't get into her character to avoid a biassed review of her character. Madoka herself is a fairly average, but has barely any focus placed onto her. It would have been more impactful to give her some more inner monologues, so we could get more from her character and find out what she thinks about the specific situation. Unfortunately, we barely get much of her thoughts on being a magic girl. Especially around episode 8 or so in which the show pretty much becomes Homura Magika. This leads into another issue, the ending. Let us compare Enrico Pucci's universal reset to Madoka's universal reset. Madoka's universal reset was a pretentious deus ex machina, another unruly literary tactic. The animation of it all happening was completely unnecessary and ruined the entire moment in that it was blatantly just SHAFT using up the rest of their budget and Shinbo being a horrible director, as usual. The scene would have been better if it just acted as a reset, rather than Madoka doing some TTGL ****. It's like Scar Symmetry's Morphogenesis music video. The directing of the music video detracted from a great song. You see, Enrico's ability to reset the universe was explained before hand and the audience was well aware of it. We also weren't subjected to some tedious panels to lead into this, we just got one page to focus on it, and that was it. It wasn't delivered poorly either. In fact, the universal reset lead a monumental change in the world that affected the entirety of the story (as opposed to some minor effect such as Madoka's Demons = new Witches and Madoka = Magical Escort to Magic Girl Valhalla) The universal reset (The one that led into Steel Ball Run) occurred because of the defeat of the main antagonist, as opposed to occurring to combat the antagonist due to the author writing himself into a corner. By the way, never use that He-Doesn't-Like-It-So-He-Must-Hate-The-Whole-Genre "argument." It just makes you look like an immature child who can't handle differing opinions. Although, the shoe fits in this situation.

Someone get Backmask some grief-seeds, he's clearly fallen to despair.

With the exception of Mami, don't all the girls have their character developments -around 2 episodes before they die? I also agree at some point it became about Homura, but as it's explained in Homura's flashback and why Madoka is now queen-bee of the magic-girls I let it slide.

As I said, to me it was something different from the panty-shots and boob-groping -but why after all the "tradegy", forced and what-not, does Madoka's very existance (as a schoolgirl, daughter, etc) have to get erased as well? It's like in Kingdom Hearts 2, where everyone forgot Sora and you find out people don't "die" per-say, they're "forgotten" and I found that a hell of a lot worse than death.

jinzo64
10-12-2012, 05:51 AM
I want to say a couple of things

1.Back wrote way to much,and the way it's presented makes it hard to read,big ol block of text style.

2.I recently started reading the manga just need to order volume 2

3.the anime is out in the u.k at the end of the month so i'll probably buy that next month.

4.From what I've read so far it seems interesting I guess I'll have to wait and see if I acctually enjoy the series,I can't realt make a justified opinion on the reading of 1 volume of the manga.

abyssion1337
10-12-2012, 06:50 AM
I see that you're still using that strung-out, hypocritical garbage that is essentially a glorified way of saying, "ur a faget" as an argument.
Again, I'm not though, I'm legitimately criticizing your lack of thought when you post, I'm in no way trying to invalidate your opinion when I say that, I'm saying hat you're not adequately backing up your opinions, which would be fine if you ever just said, "I just don't like it." But no you get super defensive and start throwing **** at me, you're the hypocrite here and you know it, so cut the bull**** and have a discussion. As for the rest of your wall of text (FOR THE LOVE GOD PLEASE IF YOU'RE GOING TO TYPE THAT MUCH BREAK IT UP INTO PARAGRAPHS), or rather as much as it as I can without getting a headache. It's actually not my first Gen Urobuchi story, I simply don't care about the failings of the stories he's written before, when I look at a thing, unless it's some sort of sequel where you have to have seen previous parts to understand what's going on, I make sure to look at that thing as it stands on its own. I don't think Madoka has a problem with obligatory character deaths because that's how he writes, their obligatory because the story calls for them. And actually I also have to disagree about the character development being ham-handed, for starters, it IS a little ham handed at times, not as much as your hyperbolic rhetoric would suggest but it is a little. This is what's known as a story telling concession, as an example think of the FBI agent's glasses from Heavy Rain, they clearly don't fit in with the tone of the story but they're only a little disruptive compared to how much they smooth out the pacing of the story. That's obviously just a big obvious example, it's usually more subtle than that but honestly for someone who knows so much about story telling, I shouldn't have to explain this.

Actually now that you've brought up character development, you're wrong about Mami, she very much isn't supposed to act as a guide. She kinda is, but that's actually primarily Kyoko's job. The thing with Madoka Magika is that it's easy to focus on the fact that it's a magical girl deconstruction, so it's easy to overlook other things, like how it's also a Hero's Journey deconstruction (I assume you've read hero with a thousand faces.) I suspect this is largely due to the fact that Magical Girl is a genre that heavily relies on parts of the hero's journey to tell it. You can just think of her as a subversion of Obi Wan. And that's the thing, the huge flaw in your argument, mentors get little to no development, because it's not their story, their story already happened (and in Obi Wan's case it was a ****ty prequel) all you need to know about the mentor is that they're a seasoned veteran. Mami though, like I said is less of a mentor more of a cautionary tale, she does explain what being a magical girl is like but she doesn't help the heroes in any meaningful way save to show them not to embrace the doomed existence of a magical girl life. In all actuality her death serves as the first bit of evidence that Kyubei is deceitful, because she didn't survive that car accident, kyubey didn't give her live her gave her borrowed time. She knows being a magical girl sucks but she has no choice in the matter so she accepts the magical girl life as much as she can. It's a little like batman, Bruce Wayne died with his parents the night they were gunned down and while a hint of him still exists, Bruce Wayne is more or less a mask batman wears to fit in with normal society so he can also sometimes operate within the boundaries of the law.

I would talk about Kyoko here, about how she functions as a mentor but honestly, they ****ed up with her, she's a badly done character. Too much angst, not that she doesn't have a reason to be a little angsty and bitter, because those should be aspects of her character but they went too far and now all I can see her doing is spending all her free time listening to Alice in Chains and reading Catcher in the Rye. Honestly I'm going to call it quits here for now, because it's getting really tedious to go through that wall of text and you're making a rather large mistake by comparing to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, they two aren't really comparable because of pacing of and tone they're just so different straight down to genre that it seems more like you're using a monumental number of words to say, "I don't like that genre, I prefer this one."

Oh one more thing, I like discussion especially with people who having opposing viewpoints, but if you continue to be hostile towards me personally I'm going to ask you to leave the thread, it's just not cool what you're doing. I remember there as a Lucky Star thread, I really ****ing hate lucky star so you know what I did? I didn't ****ing post there and bug all the people who do like it. Also because you're going to bring it up, me asking you to give reasons for your opinions and telling you to stop hand waving counterpoints and questions I bring up isn't me being hostile, you hand waving is just really disrespectful and not conducive to a good discussion which is why I get angry at you in the first place.

Guthix
10-12-2012, 10:34 AM
Watching blind sheep wallow in a pile of filth that they believe is gold can only be described as pathetic. I take it that Madoka your first Gen Urobuchi story? I say this because anybody that isn't an edgy teen can comprehend that Urobuchi's writing is formulaic and stale. His always has his characters die off a few moments after they get their (hamfisted) development in an attempt to force the audience's emotions. This is an unruly method that shows immaturity and incompetence. Compare it to, say, Kei Amemiya's death in Jin-Roh. Her character evolved throughout the movie and featured a twist that, though was surprising, wasn't abrupt. Through her character we get to see an actual dilemma in Constable Kazuki Fuse's story in which he must make the choice between soldier or bystander with the undertones that once your involved you can't get out. Her involvement in the story had meaning, her development was well paced, and her death had subtle undertones that were only evident to the viewer through inspection, as opposed to being filled with preachy overtones. To continue on with the subject of Urobuchi's characters, let us move on to the characters themselves as opposed to how he uses them. Let's discuss the characters of Madoka, Mami, Kyouko, Sayaka, and Homura. Mami and Kyouko's characters were the second most flawed characters in Madoka, in my opinion. It's obvious that they were to serve as the "seasoned veteran" characters with Mami assuming somewhat of a guiding role while Kyouko served a role to show how Magical Girls rivaled one another (Before we got to her, we only saw a glimps of that with Homura and Mami.) Mami's character was extremely two-dimensional in comparison to, say, Lisa Lisa from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 2: Battle Tendency. They both were veterned characters who were to guide the characters (Mami = Sayaka and Madoka, Lisa Lisa = Joseph and Caeser). Mami's character, however, was just that, a guide. That was it. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with this if it weren't for the fact that she was given some "development" before her inevitable and obligatory death. If you are going give a character development, do not do it in this last minute manner. At the very least, build up to this moment, show some signs of her development. Do whatever you can, but at the least avoid it. Lisa Lisa's character was great. Her emotions were shown when they were necessary. For example, look at the time when Caeser died. How does she react? Well, at first we are lead to believe that she cares not for the death of her pupil; however, when she "fought" the vampire (The one that says "OK" at the end of his sentences) We see a great deal of her character as she attempts to hold in her grief and gets an obviously lump in her throat. As for Kyouko, let's talk about her relationship/rivalry with Sayaka by comparing them to that of Dio Brando and Jonathan Joestar's relationship/ rivalry. Kyouko and Sayaka's relationship/ rivalry developed too quickly for it to even be considered well written. It was a spur of the moment ordeal in which Kyouko suddenly became Sayaka's best buddy who would do anything for her, while completely disregarding their past confrontations. Dio and JoJo's relationship/rivalry grew into a monumental rivalry. One was a charismatic con-artist from a family of con-artists while the other was just a gullible child who wanted nothing more than to do the right. We see Dio and JoJo's relationship go from your average squabble in between brothers to a monumental rivalry of tremendous proportions. JoJo overcame the bounds of being a human to fight against Dio, a genetically superior vampire. After all, JoJo was acting out of grief for his father's death and could care less about what happened to himself. We see more of how JoJo felt when he "killed" Dio. He struggled when he "killed" him. He still, despite all of what had occurred, thought of Dio as family and couldn't let go of this fact. Their rivalry was great. We didn't have rushed development with them. Their rivalry still had their brotherly bond involved, and wasn't black-and-white such as Kyouko and Sayaka's. As for Homura, well, her character was just poor in general. Her motives, though clear, were generally idiotic and went along the lines of, "I will save one person, at the price of the world." This was just insanity, especially because this occurred because Madoka was nice to her in class. I generally dislike characters such as Homura (Characters whose motives are just bi-products of extreme overreactions.), so I might have a bit of a bias, thus, I won't get into her character to avoid a biassed review of her character. Madoka herself is a fairly average, but has barely any focus placed onto her. It would have been more impactful to give her some more inner monologues, so we could get more from her character and find out what she thinks about the specific situation. Unfortunately, we barely get much of her thoughts on being a magic girl. Especially around episode 8 or so in which the show pretty much becomes Homura Magika. This leads into another issue, the ending. Let us compare Enrico Pucci's universal reset to Madoka's universal reset. Madoka's universal reset was a pretentious deus ex machina, another unruly literary tactic. The animation of it all happening was completely unnecessary and ruined the entire moment in that it was blatantly just SHAFT using up the rest of their budget and Shinbo being a horrible director, as usual. The scene would have been better if it just acted as a reset, rather than Madoka doing some TTGL ****. It's like Scar Symmetry's Morphogenesis music video. The directing of the music video detracted from a great song. You see, Enrico's ability to reset the universe was explained before hand and the audience was well aware of it. We also weren't subjected to some tedious panels to lead into this, we just got one page to focus on it, and that was it. It wasn't delivered poorly either. In fact, the universal reset lead a monumental change in the world that affected the entirety of the story (as opposed to some minor effect such as Madoka's Demons = new Witches and Madoka = Magical Escort to Magic Girl Valhalla) The universal reset (The one that led into Steel Ball Run) occurred because of the defeat of the main antagonist, as opposed to occurring to combat the antagonist due to the author writing himself into a corner. By the way, never use that He-Doesn't-Like-It-So-He-Must-Hate-The-Whole-Genre "argument." It just makes you look like an immature child who can't handle differing opinions. Although, the shoe fits in this situation.


I see that you're still using that strung-out, hypocritical garbage that is essentially a glorified way of saying, "ur a faget" as an argument.

oh man, only backmask can piss me off witch such a wall of text [i think ill even try to type decently].
i just love, how your jojo examples are like 3 times longer regarding explanation.

First off, Mami, I sorta agree on the guide role ,but I think you forgot something, or simply didnt type it. Mamis death WAS part of the guide, it was a sign that **** is real, that being a magical girls is truly not rainbows and flowers.

Kyoko - all I can say that those who don't see the reason of all her "angst" try actualy starving, you'll be surprized how it changes you. On top of that the rivalry between Kyoko and Sayaka is closer to the describtion you gave Back. Kyoko was dead serious about survival unlike the newbs who still thought witches were the main problem. On top of that Kyoko sees how hard Sayaka was hit by reality [as in her wish backfired], in stories there are characters who show compasion to others who walk a similar path, they both wished for something and they both got despair in return.

Madoka - eh... you got me there, the writer just slapped a shalow airhead, who is like a child put in a tiger pen, untill the last moments.

Homura - you underestimate lonelyness, because not only in stories, but even in real life people go into extreemes pushed by this emotion. Homura was attached to Madoka almoust in a yandere style.

Kyubei - out of these debates i've come to realize that he was actualy lying. The reason why QB didn't fix his own **** with wishes, because he knew they were flawed. Each wish had a side affect, which nullified the main point the wish was made in the first place.

The ending. By the side affect theory, if the wish cannot have a side affect it simply consumes the user itself, to insert the flaw ragardless. Simply speaking Madokas wish was granded, but she never actualy got it. As for the memory of the non egzistant protagonist, I'm assuming the're going by the same logic Madoka has such immense power. The same way Homuras time jumps created power, the same way madokas egzistense was imprinded in everyones subconsious.

Aslo i've been meaning to tell you this back. While elitism and perfection are commendable traits, they also have flaws. Elitist are often alone, lonelyness breeds the sense that you're always right letting you pick up flaws as they fit only your logic. You may go for superiority, but once you detach from the rest, no one will understand you and you'll just be another useless person, looking like a retard. Flaws will always be there, no matter how discust you'll be at them.

abyssion1337
10-12-2012, 11:12 AM
Don't get me wrong, I agree that Kyoko should have angst, I just think she was more angst than needed by quite a bit.

Also guthix, grats on mostly using real words. Mostly.

Guthix
10-12-2012, 12:56 PM
Don't get me wrong, I agree that Kyoko should have angst, I just think she was more angst than needed by quite a bit.

Also guthix, grats on mostly using real words. Mostly.

thats kind of an opinion matter since when creating something like emotion you cant clearly measure it, since i my self found her actions fitting her background.i would have said it was too much if she simply stayed in the background watching the slaughter and the collecting the "food" without showing any compasion

as well i dont see any reason to congratulate me, it just tends to be tiresome when i need to do extra explanation from doing typos

abyssion1337
10-12-2012, 01:50 PM
Honestly my problem with Kyoko's angst is she has so much it overshadows her other character traits, having a dominant trait isn't such a bad thing but angst isn't one of her main traits, angst is how she expresses bitterness and there are more ways to express bitterness than just angst. They should have cut a lot of the angst so she could show one or 2 of them. Also angst != callousness.

Gleeman
10-12-2012, 02:19 PM
I was referring to the quality of the writing, not Madoka's contraversy.

Fair enough, I was responding to the thread in general anyway. (why I didn't quote you) It's possible to poke plot holes in anything from The Godfather to Uwe Boll films. I haven't seen the other shows you mention - JoJo's I just haven't seen (I usually avoid Shonen Jump and the description didn't sound interesting), Kamen Rider - I don't do Super Sentai; so I can't judge your opinion on that. Have seen Madoka, thought it was good, but have not read the manga.


Kyubei - out of these debates i've come to realize that he was actualy lying. The reason why QB didn't fix his own **** with wishes, because he knew they were flawed. Each wish had a side affect, which nullified the main point the wish was made in the first place.

My easy answer: Kyubei's a dick. :cool: