[SleeplessPanda]

Rules for thread: No trolling, no flaming, stay on topic, try to remain constructive about any criticism offered and overall don't act like a butt-head. =p

This isn't an official petition, just testing the waters and keeping things simple.

Anyone who is for stricter quality control on AMV Minis, meaning we'd only accept videos with above average video and sound, and would only accept videos that made us fall out of our chairs laughing or make us go "That was ****ing awesome.", then do *Sign.*, and those in favor of maintaining current standards do *Anti-signs*. Feel free to leave a comment about specific changes you would like to see in the judging process if you sign, those comments will be used to form the actual petition if there's enough support. Also, if we were to take on a new judge, leave a comment on who you think would do that job well and why.

[SplitReality]

The viewers will have differing opinions on whats funny, what makes some laugh will make others wonder why the hell it's in there to start with. What's funny to some will offend others, and what's meh to some will give others nightmares. Creating anything that everyone in general will agree is funny is near impossible, especially with something that's been bled and milked this dry.

[SleeplessPanda]

The viewers will have differing opinions on whats funny, what makes some laugh will make others wonder why the hell it's in there to start with. What's funny to some will offend others, and what's meh to some will give others nightmares. Creating anything that everyone in general will agree is funny is near impossible, especially with something that's been bled and milked this dry.

Very true. One of the current judges hates dark humor and seems to have trouble judging those types of submissions fairly, while I love dark humor and I think AMV Hell has its roots deep in it. I'm just putting out this "unofficial petition" so the couple people complaining about our "low standards as judges" can feel like their opinions matter. They do of course matter, but they fail to see the big picture . . Well, we'll see how this turns out.

[bloodlover1987]

damn panda is enjoying the new rule a lot lol

but the main thing that turned me away from the minis is just the same jokes keep getting used just with different scenes

[SleeplessPanda]

Aaaaaanyway', *Anti-signs*, on the grounds that I'd rather see an average Minis episode come out every month or two, rather than a fantastic Minis episode come out every 9-12 months. The only way I could support such strict standards, is if I was certain the community as a whole could improve the content they submit to what was needed and that they could submit often enough to maintain the current output at which we release episodes. Or, new talent would have to be brought in if current users could not rise to the standards needed. I feel chasing perfection will only diminish the spirit of the series, and if the YouTube fan base is satisfied with current Minis episodes then that's good enough for me. Trying to please AMV critics who think setting anime clips to music is serious business . . is not exactly on the top of my to do list.

[Haar]

And here I was thinking I'd have to be the one to make this thread. Anyway, it's typin' time.



Anyone who is for stricter quality control on AMV Minis, meaning we'd only accept videos with above average video and sound, and would only accept videos that made us fall out of our chairs laughing or make us go "That was ****ing awesome.", then do *Sign.*

Now, the issue here is that the former qualification is somewhat easier than the latter. While I realize that achieving good audio and video quality are chores upon themselves for people not used to doing so, I acknowledge that humor is pretty subjective. While I'd like for Minis to only have jokes I like using songs I enjoy and shows I favor, I'm fully aware that that is a ridiculous and inefficient request that would be neglecting the preferences of others.

What I'm trying to say is, while some stuff is objectively bad, sometimes things are a matter of opinion. While I think that this project hasn't been as funny as it was during the "glory days" of AMV Hell (1 and 2, at least), I see that others think differently about the quality of AMV Hell. Now, I think the actual editing, audio, and video quality have gotten worse and there's really no denying that. (though to be fair, I recall poorly edited clips in the Hell movies as well.) Anyway, I think we should strive for the best and for that reason I think that we should actually observe the rules that Zarx posted. I mean, it's not that hard to crop out watermarks, find torrents/ddls of anime, songs, and editing programs, or buy CDs/DVDs/BDs. In my opinion, having clearly posted rules that just get handwaved anyway sort of undermines the very notion of "quality control."


The viewers will have differing opinions on whats funny, what makes some laugh will make others wonder why the hell it's in there to start with. What's funny to some will offend others, and what's meh to some will give others nightmares. Creating anything that everyone in general will agree is funny is near impossible, especially with something that's been bled and milked this dry.

Perhaps we should start with making a list of "banned" sources. After people get tired of seeing the same show and/or hearing the same audio clip, we should have some sort of vote to retire said sources. Either that, or we could put some kind of limit on it.


Very true. One of the current judges hates dark humor and seems to have trouble judging those types of submissions fairly, while I love dark humor and I think AMV Hell has its roots deep in it. I'm just putting out this "unofficial petition" so the couple people complaining about our "low standards as judges" can feel like their opinions matter. They do of course matter, but they fail to see the big picture . . Well, we'll see how this turns out.

I'm sort of in favor of changing the entire judging system. N.P.C.C. once said that we should use the American Idol system so the opinions of the judges besides Zarx actually will have some sort of final say in the status of a clip beyond simply being a test audience.


You know, I think Backmask would make a good judge if he were up for it. That being said, I *Sign.*

[mattroks101]

I agree with Haar *Sign*.

[SleeplessPanda]

The "American Idol" system of judging works because all the judges are equal. While it's true myself, Zuiichi, and Chewi (who rarely shows up to do his job god damn it) are all equal, Zarx' is more than a judge, he's the boss. You're basically asking for Zarx' to be on the same level as normal Minis judges, and I don't agree with that. We wouldn't have Minis without him, it's his series and it's his site, he should be able to accept submissions that he personally likes even though the other judges might not agree, that's the luxury of being in charge. Besides, maybe . . 95% of the time he does side with our input, so I didn't mean to make it seem like . . half of what gets accepted was because he wanted it and no one else did, he values our opinions as judges and recently even there was a submission he didn't like that much but decided to accept it anyway because I liked it and so did Zuiichi.

[bloodlover1987]

*Sign* this ****

[Haar]

The only way I could support such strict standards, is if I was certain the community as a whole could improve the content they submit to what was needed and that they could submit often enough to maintain the current output at which we release episodes.
Well, that's possible in theory. Just make them read those guidelines Zarx wrote and actually follow them. It's pretty simple, really.


Or, new talent would have to be brought in if current users could not rise to the standards needed.
I only see us getting new talent if Minis become really good. That will attract the best types of people for this sort of thing if we do.


I feel chasing perfection will only diminish the spirit of the series, and if the YouTube fan base is satisfied with current Minis episodes then that's good enough for me.
Hm... I would agree with this, but the youtube folks are somewhat easy to please. Look at the average popular youtuber (RayWilliamJohnson) and see what I mean about what it takes to impress these people. I strive for more than just "fair enough" when it comes to publishing my works publicly.


Trying to please AMV critics who think setting anime clips to music is serious business . . is not exactly on the top of my to do list.
It's not exactly that these people think it's serious business (at least, I don't) but I believe that certain quality standards should be observed, especially if they're written as if they're the laws of the site. If we don't enforce those guidelines of Zarx, we might as well just change the AMV Minis Entry form to say "Make you video look good and we might accept. If you just slap some stuff together we still might accept it."


The "American Idol" system of judging works because all the judges are equal. While it's true myself, Zuiichi, and Chewi (who rarely shows up to do his job god damn it) are all equal, Zarx' is more than a judge, he's the boss. You're basically asking for Zarx' to be on the same level as normal Minis judges, and I don't agree with that. We wouldn't have Minis without him, it's his series and it's his site, he should be able to accept submissions that he personally likes even though the other judges might not agree, that's the luxury of being in charge. Besides, maybe . . 95% of the time he does side with our input, so I didn't mean to make it seem like . . half of what gets accepted was because he wanted it and no one else did, he values our opinions as judges and recently even there was a submission he didn't like that much but decided to accept it anyway because I liked it and so did Zuiichi.

I understand that it's his site and series, but what's the point of having judges if he usually has the final word on videos? Conversely, if he usually agrees with you, that leads me to my previous point again of, "what's the point". So, if he only listens to a differing opinion 5% of the time and does what he wants the other 95%, having multiple judges is pointless. This returns to my previous statement in the chatbox about the judges just being patsies that Zarx can place the blame on if people don't like an episode.



You know, I see that a few people want me to be a judge (based on some Chatbox comments, at least), but I'll probably only go through with that if it's widely agreed upon.

[HellsDeathAngel]

From what I recall I don't remember that quality was and issue of what people complained about, is seems that most were complaining about the mini's be very unfunny. Viewers blame judges, judges blame editors, hard to say who's at fault when everyone is pointing fingers. As far as quality its good to have some standard of video and audio, on one want to hear or watch something that is a mess to see and hear but I'm sure with help from the judges or community the editors can make improvements where needed.

[Shuiia]

*sign* in the hope I can soon join in on the fun. Got a bunch of ideas but I just need to download Sony Vegas and get started on some stuff.

[Haar]

From what I recall I don't remember that quality was and issue of what people complained about, is seems that most were complaining about the mini's be very unfunny.
I have issues with both. We have poorly edited, low quality footage being let in nowadays and we have the same jokes being used repeatedly, and lazy, stupid clips that are just a quick observation with no real punchline. (For example: Playing a song about roses while showing a scene with some roses on screen and calling it a day.) And then there are those clips that are just syncing anime to audio that has next to nothing to do with the video. (Slapping some random Jeff Foxworthy joke to Naruto footage with little to no bearing upon what is being said.)


Viewers blame judges, judges blame editors, hard to say who's at fault when everyone is pointing fingers.
I still think the blame can be placed on the judges more than the editors for letting in the horrible things that terrible editors make. Of course, the editors are at fault as well. In my experience, most of the people who make AMVs don't want to listen to any sort of criticism at all and even if you give them advice, they'll completely ignore it. On the other hand, the stubbornness of manchildren is no excuse to tolerate their child-like mentality. Let's call it the fault of both the judges and the editors, to a certain extent.



As far as quality its good to have some standard of video and audio, on one want to hear or watch something that is a mess to see and hear but I'm sure with help from the judges or community the editors can make improvements where needed.

The way I see it, if someone makes an objectively bad clip, then it should be rejected. If it's well edited and has a good, universal joke that has never been used before and is at least mildly entertaining, accept it. It seems like a lot of poor clips are being let in with no regard to the so-called qualifications of acceptance seen here:
http://i50.tinypic.com/i3f6ed.jpg
Now, how much do you want to bet that most people who submit to Minis didn't even read 50% of that? I once submitted a clip that purposely broke every part of rule 3 and some of rule 2, yet it still got in. (That "Threw it on the Ground" clip in the live action episode which actually used footage from a bootleg camrip that some guy recorded out of a theater.) Now, there was a lot of debate over that one's acceptance, but all that really matters is that it got in. After that, I became pretty disappointed with the quality standards of Minis and it has led me to suspect that Zarx has just stopped caring about this and it's really just a vanity project that he keeps going for the sake of staying relevant.

[HellsDeathAngel]

Yes that bootleg video should have not been in there because of that, and yes there are far too many clips that don't make sense. I'm more interested in seeing funny clips again, I've said it before and I'll say it again the new mini's suck and are not funny. I want to see some clips that make me laugh and roll on the floor again. I am not an editor and don't know how so I don't need to hear the crap because I don't make them, I'm just adding my opinion to what needs to be changed and I know there are many other that feel the same way.

[Guthix]

i would like to add my 2 cents but i cant seem to sum up all the exalmples into any type of category.
so ill just simply state my own opinion:
now as previous hells went they werent all funny, but they were entertaining. why? humour doesnt run the same for everyone but inve noticed in hell that most of the amvs were miscevious. laughter at sadness, irony and sarcasm, shock and discust, stupidity and humour.
now ill give an example of a draged joke. the boom headshot joke. i find it amusing because it was an innocent looking rabit geting a bullet in the head while [assuming] a deranged person screams his vicoty/post battle cry in a self satisfactory manour for killing and innocent animal. basicaly it suposed to feel wrong and that why it was amusing.
now not so long ago ive seen the same audio with a one piece character geting hit in the crotch by a kid. now while i do understand some people find it humorous [some still laugh at the old banna peal joke] it didnt not have the same level of amusement. the one piece character was basicaly a clown so you kinda expect such a thing, his own character design is funny looking which makes everything seem like it was suposed to happen.
now this may sound like a deranged taste, but tell me why are is this site named after hell? why in the most early hells [the "best ones"] there are quite well done war mocking jokes which are frowned in normal society?
and this is just a piece of the so called "quality"
as for this blame pointing, its obvious that the majority of editors and judges simply dont give a dam, the flaws are obvious as day and night,but since no one gives a dam they wont move, and if you think this lil petition will do anything youre dead wrong.gonna need more then that to fix this ****.

[Zuiichi]

Well, that's possible in theory. Just make them read those guidelines Zarx wrote and actually follow them. It's pretty simple, really.


I only see us getting new talent if Minis become really good. That will attract the best types of people for this sort of thing if we do.

Hm... I would agree with this, but the youtube folks are somewhat easy to please. Look at the average popular youtuber (RayWilliamJohnson) and see what I mean about what it takes to impress these people. I strive for more than just "fair enough" when it comes to publishing my works publicly.

It's not exactly that these people think it's serious business (at least, I don't) but I believe that certain quality standards should be observed, especially if they're written as if they're the laws of the site. If we don't enforce those guidelines of Zarx, we might as well just change the AMV Minis Entry form to say "Make you video look good and we might accept. If you just slap some stuff together we still might accept it."

I understand that it's his site and series, but what's the point of having judges if he usually has the final word on videos? Conversely, if he usually agrees with you, that leads me to my previous point again of, "what's the point". So, if he only listens to a differing opinion 5% of the time and does what he wants the other 95%, having multiple judges is pointless. This returns to my previous statement in the chatbox about the judges just being patsies that Zarx can place the blame on if people don't like an episode.

You know, I see that a few people want me to be a judge (based on some Chatbox comments, at least), but I'll probably only go through with that if it's widely agreed upon.

1: Its like clockwork, after a mini episode is released I see about 5-10 new people trying to make their amv's and add it to the show, and they are always 98% of the time pure crap, we get lucky sometimes that someone is actualy good (koolfox etc) People that make amv's do it for their own organizations or fame, There are loads of youtube amv'ers trying to make amv's for hell but they are too used to not having limitations that they end up sending 2-3 minute clips.

2: I'm more inclined to pleasing the youtube crowd since they are the target audience, having a few hundred youtubers love a ep and have a few amv purists hate it kinda weighs itself out,

3: Its a guideline not a law

4: Zarx is in a word, old, :P, he hasn't watched most of these new animes, and sometimes he forgets what has and has not been used, people love to submit jokes that are only understandable if you watch the show.

5: you talk to the same 5 people on chat daily




I still think the blame can be placed on the judges more than the editors for letting in the horrible things that terrible editors make. Of course, the editors are at fault as well. In my experience, most of the people who make AMVs don't want to listen to any sort of criticism at all and even if you give them advice, they'll completely ignore it. On the other hand, the stubbornness of manchildren is no excuse to tolerate their child-like mentality. Let's call it the fault of both the judges and the editors, to a certain extent.

The way I see it, if someone makes an objectively bad clip, then it should be rejected. If it's well edited and has a good, universal joke that has never been used before and is at least mildly entertaining, accept it. It seems like a lot of poor clips are being let in with no regard to the so-called qualifications of acceptance seen here:
http://i50.tinypic.com/i3f6ed.jpg
Now, how much do you want to bet that most people who submit to Minis didn't even read 50% of that? I once submitted a clip that purposely broke every part of rule 3 and some of rule 2, yet it still got in. (That "Threw it on the Ground" clip in the live action episode which actually used footage from a bootleg camrip that some guy recorded out of a theater.) Now, there was a lot of debate over that one's acceptance, but all that really matters is that it got in. After that, I became pretty disappointed with the quality standards of Minis and it has led me to suspect that Zarx has just stopped caring about this and it's really just a vanity project that he keeps going for the sake of staying relevant.

1: Oy here's a little mindblow, I never watch the submission alone, I download all of these at a time and then take them out to various events, cons, tournaments, and sometimes I show my customers at work and school, you're not being judged by me, you're being judged by random gamers, otaku's and average joe's everyday, and seeing how I love to reject 90% of the clips for no reason, there you have it, my reason is not always my own.

2: you don't see what happens behind these internet curtains, I had to withstand a lot of **** because I rejected someone's european pepsi commercial, because in my ignorance i have never seen that european pepsi commercial, and on that same note was ridiculed by the same person because he didn't understand the nfl rukia amv.

3: once again those are guidelines not laws.

[SleeplessPanda]

i would like to add my 2 cents but i cant seem to sum up all the exalmples into any type of category.
so ill just simply state my own opinion:
now as previous hells went they werent all funny, but they were entertaining. why? humour doesnt run the same for everyone but inve noticed in hell that most of the amvs were miscevious. laughter at sadness, irony and sarcasm, shock and discust, stupidity and humour.
now ill give an example of a draged joke. the boom headshot joke. i find it amusing because it was an innocent looking rabit geting a bullet in the head while [assuming] a deranged person screams his vicoty/post battle cry in a self satisfactory manour for killing and innocent animal. basicaly it suposed to feel wrong and that why it was amusing.
now not so long ago ive seen the same audio with a one piece character geting hit in the crotch by a kid. now while i do understand some people find it humorous [some still laugh at the old banna peal joke] it didnt not have the same level of amusement. the one piece character was basicaly a clown so you kinda expect such a thing, his own character design is funny looking which makes everything seem like it was suposed to happen.
now this may sound like a deranged taste, but tell me why are is this site named after hell? why in the most early hells [the "best ones"] there are quite well done war mocking jokes which are frowned in normal society?
and this is just a piece of the so called "quality"
as for this blame pointing, its obvious that the majority of editors and judges simply dont give a dam, the flaws are obvious as day and night,but since no one gives a dam they wont move, and if you think this lil petition will do anything youre dead wrong.gonna need more then that to fix this ****.

Yes, having Zarx' agree to a set of stricter standards wouldn't fix everything. All it would do if filter out the average and mediocre submissions that would've been tossed in as filler, and filter out good submissions (humor/entertainment wise) that just didn't meet video/audio/editing standards. If the AMV Hell community doesn't change the way they make videos, as in the humor doesn't improve and the quality remains questionable, if we were to REALLY start going by the standards you so intensely want us to follow, we might not even be looking at a yearly release. The reality is that people seem to not want to put the effort into making high quality original videos these days, and the few that do don't submit very often, or they're like Matt' who makes a ton of funny Abridged episodes on YouTube but even though he's a member of this site he rarely submits to Minis.

[SleeplessPanda]

I agree with Zuiichi. I'd rather please the YouTube fan base that're helping keep this series alive, over the stuffy hard to please AMV critics whom most of don't even submit anything. They're quick to complain about quality standards, but ask them to start submitting some quality videos themselves and all of a sudden they're very quiet . .

[Haar]

All it would do if filter out the average and mediocre submissions that would've been tossed in as filler, and filter out good submissions (humor/entertainment wise) that just didn't meet video/audio/editing standards.

But there's hardly any excuse for having poor video and audio, nowadays. That video quality for dummies thread of Zarx's pretty much tells you all the basics you need to know.


I agree with Zuiichi. I'd rather please the YouTube fan base that're helping keep this series alive, over the stuffy hard to please AMV critics whom most of don't even submit anything. They're quick to complain about quality standards, but ask them to start submitting some quality videos themselves and all of a sudden they're very quiet . .
That's sort of silly. So what you're saying is that critics have to know every last thing about something and be thoroughly involved in the creation of it to know what's right? If so, do non-musical artists not have the right to criticize musical artists they don't like?



1: Its like clockwork, after a mini episode is released I see about 5-10 new people trying to make their amv's and add it to the show, and they are always 98% of the time pure crap, we get lucky sometimes that someone is actualy good (koolfox etc) People that make amv's do it for their own organizations or fame, There are loads of youtube amv'ers trying to make amv's for hell but they are too used to not having limitations that they end up sending 2-3 minute clips.
LOL, I get this feeling that you're not exaggerating about the 3 minute thing. That's really sort of sad when you think about it.


2: I'm more inclined to pleasing the youtube crowd since they are the target audience, having a few hundred youtubers love a ep and have a few amv purists hate it kinda weighs itself out,
So pandering is fine as long as it equates popularity?


3: Its a guideline not a law
What's the point of having guidelines if we don't even try to enforce them beyond the point of "no subs in your videos, guys"?


4: Zarx is in a word, old, :P, he hasn't watched most of these new animes, and sometimes he forgets what has and has not been used, people love to submit jokes that are only understandable if you watch the show.
1. There's this magical thing combo exists called "CRTL + F" using this, you can look through documents for words and phrases. Seeing as how these clips are all written down, it's possible to know what jokes have been done before.
2. In my opinion, jokes that are only accessible to fans of the show should be saved for episodes dedicated to those shows. I never assume that people have seen an anime I'm going to use for a clip, no matter how popular the show is, so I don't ever try to make an inside joke clip.


5: you talk to the same 5 people on chat daily
Yes, the same that are always there and actually want to talk to me.


1: Oy here's a little mindblow, I never watch the submission alone, I download all of these at a time and then take them out to various events, cons, tournaments, and sometimes I show my customers at work and school, you're not being judged by me, you're being judged by random gamers, otaku's and average joe's everyday, and seeing how I love to reject 90% of the clips for no reason, there you have it, my reason is not always my own.
So your decisions are not your own. Rather they're the decisions of others. I didn't know that there were sub-judges. Shouldn't your calls be your own rather than the ones made by others that influence yours sense you're actually a judge, unlike them?


2: you don't see what happens behind these internet curtains, I had to withstand a lot of **** because I rejected someone's european pepsi commercial, because in my ignorance i have never seen that european pepsi commercial, and on that same note was ridiculed by the same person because he didn't understand the nfl rukia amv.
So some negative things were said through a computer screen. What's the big deal?

[Zuiichi]

WOW how can someone be so bad at arguing?



That's sort of silly. So what you're saying is that critics have to know every last thing about something and be thoroughly involved in the creation of it to know what's right? If so, do non-musical artists not have the right to criticize musical artists they don't like?

So pandering is fine as long as it equates popularity?

What's the point of having guidelines if we don't even try to enforce them beyond the point of "no subs in your videos, guys"?

1. There's this magical thing combo exists called "CRTL + F" using this, you can look through documents for words and phrases. Seeing as how these clips are all written down, it's possible to know what jokes have been done before.
2. In my opinion, jokes that are only accessible to fans of the show should be saved for episodes dedicated to those shows. I never assume that people have seen an anime I'm going to use for a clip, no matter how popular the show is, so I don't ever try to make an inside joke clip.

So your decisions are not your own. Rather they're the decisions of others. I didn't know that there were sub-judges. Shouldn't your calls be your own rather than the ones made by others that influence yours sense you're actually a judge, unlike them?

So some negative things were said through a computer screen. What's the big deal?

1: ok wtf? you just described a critic as being a critic and besides that, had absolutely nothing to do with my comment.

2: why yes, i'd rather please many peasants than a few noble's

3: LOL I dare you to try and find a mini clip with subtitles

4: my god that sounds horrible, I have over 200 user submissions from a mere year alone, I will in no way try to document or organize that

5: well guess what people do, in fact i believe that IS a amv, imagine watching a firin mah lazor clip and not knowing what its from seems impossible no? if i believe the greater majority have seen the source of the audio then i'll be more inclined to accept it.

6: they are the general public, if the joke does not amuse them then what will they amuse?

7: you sir are gonna destroy the internet with that sort of talk

[Haar]

WOW how can someone be so bad at arguing?
And so begins the **** slinging portion of our evening.




1: ok wtf? you just described a critic as being a critic and besides that, had absolutely nothing to do with my comment.
I was simply trying to say that the way Panda was describing it, it seemed as if one only had the right to complain about Minis if they submitted content. I outgrew the "LET'S SEE YOU DO BETTER" mentality once I got out of the Fifth Grade of elementary school.


2: why yes, i'd rather please many peasants than a few noble's
Would not pleasing the nobles also be enjoyable for the peasants? I'm sure that the weapons and comforts of nobility doth not be hated by the serfs.


3: LOL I dare you to try and find a mini clip with subtitles
Seems you misread my statement. That's the only thing that actually IS enforced. As long as there are no subs, it seems like anything else goes.


4: my god that sounds horrible, I have over 200 user submissions from a mere year alone, I will in no way try to document or organize that
The published clips from each episode are cataloged here on the site. You can just look up the credits for any episode and see what anime and songs have been used. Not to mention how that one guy made that big spreadsheet showing every clip ever made in both AMV Hell and Minis. It's child's play.


5: well guess what people do, in fact i believe that IS a amv, imagine watching a firin mah lazor clip and not knowing what its from seems impossible no? if i believe the greater majority have seen the source of the audio then i'll be more inclined to accept it.
I'm talking about video, not audio. And this may come as a shock to you, but not everyone knows everything about memes and stuff. Sure, I know about the lazer collection, but we really can't expect everyone to. Even then, knowing how some people are, I still wouldn't feel it would be incredibly safe to make an inside joke even if it's for a vastly popular anime. Universal humor is best in these sorts of situations.


6: they are the general public, if the joke does not amuse them then what will they amuse?
Completely missing my point. I assumed that you were confident in your judging ability and didn't need some backup to tell if a video was funny.


7: you sir are gonna destroy the internet with that sort of talk
So? And that's a bad thing? What's your point here?

[Guthix]

"Yes, the same that are always there and actually want to talk to me."

panda you got burned by a passive person

"So your decisions are not your own. Rather they're the decisions of others. I didn't know that there were sub-judges. Shouldn't your calls be your own rather than the ones made by others that influence yours sense you're actually a judge, unlike them?"

no, what zui is doing is CORRECT, stfu

[SleeplessPanda]

"Yes, the same that are always there and actually want to talk to me."

panda you got burned by a passive person

"So your decisions are not your own. Rather they're the decisions of others. I didn't know that there were sub-judges. Shouldn't your calls be your own rather than the ones made by others that influence yours sense you're actually a judge, unlike them?"

no, what zui is doing is CORRECT, stfu

When you said "panda" did you mean "Zuiichi"? He was quoting him not me, I didn't say anything about Haar's chatting habits.

[jinzo64]

I havn't been submitting videos for long and at first I was annoyed my videos weren't getting in but after reavaluting my entries I'm glad that some of them didn't make it in because they are of a poor standard.

I think the most anoying rejction reason is there isn't a joke in it.
It could be the best mini's clip in the world crisp clear picture amazing audio, good concept but without a joke it probably won't get in.

I'm doing my usual thing writing with only my emotional half of the brain working so When I do that I tend to wright utter nonscense.

I personaly think the minis should try and move away from trying to be 100% funny as comedy is subjective and different for everyone and they should focus on these things video quality audio quality and the theme or concept of the video.

[Backmask]

I'd rather please the YouTube fan base that're helping keep this series alive

This only applies to shows that are funded by their respective network, who will cut the budget or cancel the series as a whole if said show doesn't get good ratings. Minis are completely controlled by those who find this as a hobby. Because of this, the negative repercussions of having a small viewer-base are completely different. Nothing is going to stop you from continuing this if you only have a 1,000- 2,000 viewer average. Even then, the current state of the Minis is only keeping the few fans that the Minis have - with that number of fans slowly declining; however, if you want a multitude of good clips as opposed to a landslide of bad clips, then making the rules stricter will have a probability of actually getting us some better clips, and not because of people having to follow the implied guidelines and attempt to meet the strict standards; however, the aforementioned bi-products will more-than-likely occur. With the new guidelines set, there would be a decline in the amount of Mini episodes released and a possible loss in interest from the viewer-base; however, with higher quality Minis being released, interest will spark again, and - slowly but surely - more skilled individuals will find interest in the Minis and attempt to submit their works. Of course, first the judges would have to stop thinking that the current fanbase is something to be proud of, then there's the small chance this won't work - seeing as most consider the Minis name is the equivalent to a septic facial and probably wouldn't even give it a chance..

[Haar]

"So your decisions are not your own. Rather they're the decisions of others. I didn't know that there were sub-judges. Shouldn't your calls be your own rather than the ones made by others that influence yours sense you're actually a judge, unlike them?"

no, what zui is doing is CORRECT, stfu

I never said he was incorrect, per se. I just thought that the very notion of using a test audience was funny coming from someone like Zuii.




I think the most anoying rejction reason is there isn't a joke in it.
It could be the best mini's clip in the world crisp clear picture amazing audio, good concept but without a joke it probably won't get in.

I personaly think the minis should try and move away from trying to be 100% funny as comedy is subjective and different for everyone and they should focus on these things video quality audio quality and the theme or concept of the video.

Personally, I'd prefer for a clip to have both good quality and to be funny or entertaining, but that's just me.


however, with higher quality Minis being released, interest will spark again, and - slowly but surely - more skilled individuals will find interest in the Minis and attempt to submit their works. Of course, first the judges would have to stop thinking that the current fanbase is something to be proud of, then there's the small chance this won't work - seeing as most consider the Minis name is the equivalent to a septic facial and probably wouldn't even give it a chance..

Who would actually bother to join up and assist us? The AMV.org people? I think they're disillusioned with us beyond repair by now. Or were you talking about some random foreign guys?

[Backmask]

Who would actually bother to join up and assist us? The AMV.org people? I think they're disillusioned with us beyond repair by now. Or were you talking about some random foreign guys?

People - who can make good AMVs - who see that the Minis aren't **** anymore and would like to contribute? Foreign guys are out of the question. MADs are far superior to AMVs. Of course, MADs are made differently than AMVs.

[N.P.C.C.]

*Signs in blood*

I just want people to start following the freaking rules again. I don't know about everyone else, but my amv making got a lot better when i tried to follow guidelines to the best of my ability. First clip i submitted ever got rejected and rightfully so, so when i actually closely started following the rules i ended up going on the have a 5 clip acceptance streak despite being relevantly new to this sort of thing and by my own admission, drastically ignorant in aspects of editing videos. Granted, it Probably has something to do with the quality of minis dropping in general but i like to think it helped me get better. Must mention though, i am very disappointed that a clip of mine with a rather blatant watermark got in the western animation episode looking back. (ignorant about the concept of cropping)

And yes i do believe in the american idol system being utilized here. This way ALL input matters.

Also, i recommend haar helps in the judging simply because he takes the time to give everyone advice on how to improve videos frequently and would try to maintain a standard.

[Haar]

People - who can make good AMVs - who see that the Minis aren't **** anymore and would like to contribute? Foreign guys are out of the question.
I was referring to Europeans. Other big AMV sites get new blood from France and Russia from time to time. Of course, I seriously doubt the AMVNews guys would want to use this site in the first place.


MADs are far superior to AMVs.
No argument there. The "retarded kid to competent guy" ratio is much better over there, seeing as how the Japanese still understand the concept of shame.


Of course, MADs are made differently than AMVs.
How so? Only big difference I can think of at the moment is that they try to come up with a concept that goes beyond "check out these cool techniques Sasuke can do". Of course, that's already a lot of points in their favor.

[Backmask]

Only big difference I can think of at the moment is that they try to come up with a concept that goes beyond "check out these cool techniques Sasuke can do".

That's... well, probably the only difference. Really just trying to give AMVs the benefit of the doubt.
Average MAD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR8bczl-TlM
Average AMV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7fCnqaaPQI

[tengutenga]

** Signed, very naively ***

I think the best way one can understand what high-quality and funny means is to watch the Good (Hell 1-4), the Bad (some imitators on YouTube) and the Rejected AMVs (Paradise) and think about what makes them good, and what makes them sloppy.

[Haar]

I think the best way one can understand what high-quality and funny means is to watch the Good (Hell 1-4), the Bad (some imitators on YouTube) and the Rejected AMVs (Paradise) and think about what makes them good, and what makes them sloppy.
To be fair, I thought AMV Hell 3 was filled with terrible, terrible clips with a few good ones in there to shake up the mix. Haven't seen four in a while. Probably need to re-watch it. To be honest, I really think that Mecha Hell (vimeo.com/25137364) was better than some of the official Hell movies.



Really just trying to give AMVs the benefit of the doubt.
You poor, poor man. I gave up on giving most AMV editors the benefit of the doubt a while back, seeing as how most reviews I give to people that ask me for them are universally met with negative responses and ridiculous justifications. At this point, I'll really only say something about a video after I've observed the editor and have made sure they're not crazy and won't flip out in a suicidal rage from criticism.

Average MAD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR8bczl-TlM
I liked that one. Probably would've liked it more if I could actually remember the lyrics to So Far Away in the Eye. I'll have to hold on to that one, nonetheless.

Average AMV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7fCnqaaPQI
Yep, that pretty much hits the nail on the head other than it not using Naruto or Bleach.

[SleeplessPanda]

I think it basically boils down to . . if you want better Minis episodes, find us some people who can meet these high standards, or find a way to whip our current members into shape. Even the users I consider our best submitters, who's work I enjoy, would have to improve. If you want a possible solution . . I've seen people submit videos with great concepts but the execution was terrible, and I've seen people submit DVD quality videos with good editing but the humor just falls flat and it wasn't entertaining at all. Current rules imply that whatever's submitted needs to be done by one person only, but I think if we started accepting submissions done by 2-3 people working together to combine their skills, that we could possibly see a vast improvement in the content seen in Minis.

[Haar]

Why is it so hard for people to do both? Is making a well edited and funny clip all that hard? I could manage to do both if I felt like it. Once I'm done with my current project, I'll be bound to submit my subsequent stuff to AMV Minis.

[SleeplessPanda]

Why is it so hard for people to do both? Is making a well edited and funny clip all that hard? I could manage to do both if I felt like it. Once I'm done with my current project, I'll be bound to submit my subsequent stuff to AMV Minis.

I'm not a professional AMV maker, but I think I have a great sense of humor, though it takes me awhile to come up with a worthy concept, and longer if I search for quality video. That's why my submissions are far apart from each other, but when I do submit something, it's funny and it looks good. I didn't used to care about video quality, and I popped out submissions more often, but ever since I started to look for the best video possible to use with my ideas . . some concepts I end up tossing away just because I'm not happy with the available video to use. Some people just aren't good at being both a good editor and a good idea person, allowing people to submit as teams would help fix that problem right?

[Haar]

I'm not a professional AMV maker,
Neither am I. I'm pretty sure no one is a textbook professional, seeing as how we can't make money off of it, but I see what you're saying. I'm not exactly the most proficient person at this sort of thing, either.


but I think I have a great sense of humor, though it takes me awhile to come up with a worthy concept, and longer if I search for quality video.
Isn't that pretty easy, though? Thanks to torrent sites like BakaBT and DDL sites such as AnimeTake, that's really not a problem. Not to mention that fansub groups put links to their videos on their sites. Zarx even mentioned all of this in his thread regarding video quality.



Some people just aren't good at being both a good editor and a good idea person, allowing people to submit as teams would help fix that problem right?
Sure. That might actually be a good idea. So, is there actually a rule forbidding people from working together?

[SleeplessPanda]

Neither am I. I'm pretty sure no one is a textbook professional, seeing as how we can't make money off of it, but I see what you're saying. I'm not exactly the most proficient person at this sort of thing, either.


Isn't that pretty easy, though? Thanks to torrent sites like BakaBT and DDL sites such as AnimeTake, that's really not a problem. Not to mention that fansub groups put links to their videos on their sites. Zarx even mentioned all of this in his thread regarding video quality.



Sure. That might actually be a good idea. So, is there actually a rule forbidding people from working together?

I do recall there being a rule that users can't submit a video they didn't personally make themselves, but maybe that rule only suggests that people shouldn't submit works that they had nothing to do with and didn't consider the possibility of someone submitting a video as a representative of a team effort.

[Backmask]

Sure. That might actually be a good idea. So, is there actually a rule forbidding people from working together?

I don't think so. If there is, then it has been neglected because I can think of two instances where two individuals were credited for a single clip.

[Haar]

I do recall there being a rule that users can't submit a video they didn't personally make themselves, but maybe that rule only suggests that people shouldn't submit works that they had nothing to do with and didn't consider the possibility of someone submitting a video as a representative of a team effort.

I'd be willing to assist people with their videos, provided I thought the joke had a good concept and was somewhat original. I'd even be willing to catalog and upload episodes to AMV.org to increase interest, if possible.


I don't think so. If there is, then it has been neglected because I can think of two instances where two individuals were credited for a single clip.

N.P.C.C. and I worked on a clip together, once. (which was rejected anyway,but that's beside the point) Of course, we both did some of the editing.

[SleeplessPanda]

So that's . . 6 unofficial signatures in favor of stricter quality control, but I know there's a ton more users here than that. If it makes it up to at least 20, I'll make an official petition.

[Haar]

20? Do those many people even talk here? (Yes, I'm being serious. I'm just too tired to count right now)

[Shadow66]

If the minis go under the same strict quality control as the amv hells then the next paradise will probably be as long as amv hell 3 or 4 and I'm pretty sure we don't want that since you guys complain that the last one was too long which was as long as a amv hell 0.

[Guthix]

youre not forced to watch paradice lol

[Haar]

If the minis go under the same strict quality control as the amv hells then the next paradise will probably be as long as amv hell 3 or 4 and I'm pretty sure we don't want that since you guys complain that the last one was too long which was as long as a amv hell 0.

Invalid argument. Firstly, as Guthix said earlier, you're not forced to watch. Second, I doubt that most of the people that hit and run this site to get attention by submitting videos would even know what AMV Paradise is, therefore wouldn't submit their cancer. Third, I don't think it's going to kill anybody to watch a long video, or God forbid, divide a video into viewing sessions.

[SleeplessPanda]

We don't really get the brand spankin' new users submitting content, and the few that do have some original and funny concepts. The ones you're thinking of, that create threads to advertise their below average videos, don't submit anything and usually don't hang around long. The majority of the bad submissions we get seem to be from older users who have lost that spark that made their early videos original and funny.

[Haar]

Whoa! Some of the people who submit to Minis were good at some point? I'll have to look into this to see exactly who you're talking about, but I'll take your word for it, for now.

[UTF]

If you don't like the state it's in, and are confident you can make better content, just make the better content. And if it still doesn't make the cut into Minis, just submit your own amalgam video to youtube.

[Haar]

I've been working on the latter for about a year, now. Of course, I doubt I'm going to put it on youtube, seeing as how their copyright claims work nowadays. I'll probably just go straight for Vimeo.

[SleeplessPanda]

Seeing how a week went by without any further interest in this, I think I can safely assume it's only a small part of the community that would want to see this happen. Major changes like this shouldn't happen without a decent majority of users backing it up, we can't just enact them to please 6-8 people.

[Zarxrax]

Didn't notice this thread until now,
but I have a lot to say on the matter.

First of all, I want to explain my motivations behind amv hell and amv minis.
I started making AMVs way back in the day. 2001 I think it was. I got really into it, and it didn't take long before the hobby started to encompass my life. I was editing all the time. Whenever I listened to music or watched anime, my brain was constantly scanning for AMV ideas. An AMV creator was pretty much who I was.

However, it wasn't just that I enjoyed creating videos myself. I also enjoyed watching other peoples videos. I often loved AMVs more than anime itself. I enjoyed promoting the hobby and encouraging others to edit. I spent a lot of time helping people learn the ropes, and teaching how to do stuff. I took over the handling of the main technical guides over at animemusicvideos.org, with a primary goal of trying to make the content simpler and more approachable for newbies (whether I was able to succeed in that regard is debatable). Basically, i just wanted to help bring more people into the hobby that I loved.

I also see AMV Minis as a way of doing just that. A way for people to get their creations out there, and then hopefully encourage them to continue and then go on to improve themselves, and make even better things in the future.

Years ago I had people telling me about how I needed to try to monetize all of this, turn it into a commercial endeavor, make a full time job out of it. I never went along with that because I didn't really think it was right, and I felt that it would only have a negative impact on what is essentially a fandom. So I have just kept it cool and laid back. I don't go out promoting or begging you for your facebook likes and youtube subscriptions. I just enjoy seeing the clever and funny ideas that you guys can sometimes come up with, while at the same time helping people to feel like they are a part of something bigger.

So now regarding the issue of quality
People say that the level of quality has continued to decline over the years. I would be inclined to agree with that. With AMV Hell 3, that was essentially made by a bunch of experienced AMV editors. From that point forward, with the explosion in popularity, the project both lost the interest of many veteran AMV editors, and gained the interest of many newbies who had never edited anything before. And over the years, the balance has shifted more and more.
New editors often don't understand the basics of digital video, and don't know how to produce a video with good quality. Because of the shift towards more new creators, over the years, I have found myself becoming more and more relaxed in the quality standards that I am willing to accept. Part of the reason for this is that as mentioned, many people just don't know how to do it better. I have seen some really awesome videos that had crappy quality, and when I began to accept those, I suppose it slowly opened the floodgates allowing more and more in.
As has already been mentioned, if we adhere to strict quality standards, that will only reduce the number of videos that get accepted, and therefore reduce the frequency between episodes being released.

As far as the judging goes, I really couldn't do it without the other judges. It's important to understand, that if I were to only accept videos that I thought were CLEARLY awesome, less than probably 10% of entries would get accepted. As it is, we probably end up accepting around 40-50% of entries. This means that a lot of those entries are rather mediocre, and these are the most difficult videos to judge.
While I do ultimately have full control over what gets in and what doesn't. The other judges heavily influence my decision. If I see that someone really likes a particular video, then that is probably going to get accepted, even if I don't really like it personally. If everyone generally agrees that a video is bad or just ok, then it usually gets cut.
But then there are the videos where I mostly get feedback which boils down to "well it was pretty good" or "I kind of liked it". There is really no clear consensus as to whether it needs to be accepted or not. In these cases (which are a LOT of videos) I ultimately just end up making the decision myself. And then it all goes back to the point of how much time is going to pass between episodes? AS WELL AS the point of this being a platform for allowing people to get their ideas out there and seen by a larger audience.


Now, with all of that said, I have already announced that season 2 will be coming to an end after the next episode. Where will we go from here?
To be honest, I have been considering calling it quits for AMV Minis after this, or perhaps putting it on a long hiatus. I have also considered perhaps letting someone else take it over, though this is something that I would hesitate to do.
The flame just doesn't burn as strong as it used to. The anime and AMV fandoms have mostly run their course for me. Not to say that I don't still enjoy them somewhat, but these things are no longer a priority in my life.

So I'm not sure where we will be going from here, but I am listening to all of your feedback.

[UTF]

Seeing how a week went by without any further interest in this, I think I can safely assume it's only a small part of the community that would want to see this happen. Major changes like this shouldn't happen without a decent majority of users backing it up, we can't just enact them to please 6-8 people.

Not saying that I wouldn't like the quality control to be better, but the main problem seems to be that you only get so many submissions to choose from. If you get 20 videos submitted, and 17 of them are crap, are you going to submit a video with just 3 clips?

[Haar]

Not saying that I wouldn't like the quality control to be better, but the main problem seems to be that you only get so many submissions to choose from. If you get 20 videos submitted, and 17 of them are crap, are you going to submit a video with just 3 clips?
I'm assuming that problem would be solved with a hiatus of some sort. Of course, that's potentially a double edged sword.


Whenever I listened to music or watched anime, my brain was constantly scanning for AMV ideas. An AMV creator was pretty much who I was.
I'm the same way at times.


I took over the handling of the main technical guides over at animemusicvideos.org, with a primary goal of trying to make the content simpler and more approachable for newbies (whether I was able to succeed in that regard is debatable). Basically, i just wanted to help bring more people into the hobby that I loved.
I think you succeeded, to a certain extent. Your guides on The Org certainly helped me. I was pretty lost before I read those. When you compare my old work to my newer stuff, the difference is quite clear. More on that later.



Years ago I had people telling me about how I needed to try to monetize all of this, turn it into a commercial endeavor, make a full time job out of it. I never went along with that because I didn't really think it was right, and I felt that it would only have a negative impact on what is essentially a fandom. So I have just kept it cool and laid back.
Isn't that actually illegal? I mean, I've noticed that SSG is making clips for $5 for AMV Hell 6 and that never really sat right with me. Or was that actually a joke?


So now regarding the issue of quality
People say that the level of quality has continued to decline over the years. I would be inclined to agree with that. With AMV Hell 3, that was essentially made by a bunch of experienced AMV editors. From that point forward, with the explosion in popularity, the project both lost the interest of many veteran AMV editors, and gained the interest of many newbies who had never edited anything before. And over the years, the balance has shifted more and more.
New editors often don't understand the basics of digital video, and don't know how to produce a video with good quality. Because of the shift towards more new creators, over the years, I have found myself becoming more and more relaxed in the quality standards that I am willing to accept. Part of the reason for this is that as mentioned, many people just don't know how to do it better. I have seen some really awesome videos that had crappy quality, and when I began to accept those, I suppose it slowly opened the floodgates allowing more and more in.
As I mentioned earlier, I feel that inexperience is a bit of a poor excuse, in this case. I mean, you've written several guides on editing. At this point, I'm honestly convinced that a lot of the new people didn't even skimming any of these guides. Sure, I didn't instantly get everything upon reading A&E's Technical Guides to All Things Audio and Video, but I got the basics of what not to do.


As has already been mentioned, if we adhere to strict quality standards, that will only reduce the number of videos that get accepted, and therefore reduce the frequency between episodes being released.
I wouldn't really mind a longer wait between episodes. I'm aware some would, but that's at least somewhat better than having to wade through a bunch of bad videos, right?


As far as the judging goes, I really couldn't do it without the other judges. It's important to understand, that if I were to only accept videos that I thought were CLEARLY awesome, less than probably 10% of entries would get accepted. As it is, we probably end up accepting around 40-50% of entries. This means that a lot of those entries are rather mediocre, and these are the most difficult videos to judge.
While I do ultimately have full control over what gets in and what doesn't. The other judges heavily influence my decision. If I see that someone really likes a particular video, then that is probably going to get accepted, even if I don't really like it personally. If everyone generally agrees that a video is bad or just ok, then it usually gets cut.
But then there are the videos where I mostly get feedback which boils down to "well it was pretty good" or "I kind of liked it". There is really no clear consensus as to whether it needs to be accepted or not. In these cases (which are a LOT of videos) I ultimately just end up making the decision myself. And then it all goes back to the point of how much time is going to pass between episodes? AS WELL AS the point of this being a platform for allowing people to get their ideas out there and seen by a larger audience.
We can't coddle newbies forever. That's like giving every kid a trophy just for joining the football team. After a few warnings and suggestions, I believe you should buckle down on people. Plenty of times, when people ask me for advice on videos, I'll overlook things the first time, but if they show me a poor video made after I've told them about guides and such, that's when I start to get very critical.




Now, with all of that said, I have already announced that season 2 will be coming to an end after the next episode. Where will we go from here?
To be honest, I have been considering calling it quits for AMV Minis after this, or perhaps putting it on a long hiatus. I have also considered perhaps letting someone else take it over, though this is something that I would hesitate to do.
The flame just doesn't burn as strong as it used to. The anime and AMV fandoms have mostly run their course for me. Not to say that I don't still enjoy them somewhat, but these things are no longer a priority in my life.
I'd be in favor of a hiatus, actually. If worse comes to worse, I can understand calling it quits for good. So if someone else did take it over, who would? SSG? If so, I can say a lot about that already, but I'd like to know exactly who you'd choose.

[SleeplessPanda]

Instead of a hiatus, can't we start off season 3 of Minis with a special episode that only has entries submitted by teams of two or more? Maybe encourage good editors to pair up with good concept people to increase quality and entertainment value? Maybe the experience will help certain users learn how to make videos better, and other users will learn more about what's funny and amusing. I think if Minis was inactive for too long, the YouTube audience would get bored and wander off.

[thedarkmessenger]

wow....Zarx's post actually explained a lot.

[SleeplessPanda]

Also, we need a new judge, I don't think Chewi's coming back. >.>

[Haar]

Instead of a hiatus, can't we start off season 3 of Minis with a special episode that only has entries submitted by teams of two or more? Maybe encourage good editors to pair up with good concept people to increase quality and entertainment value? Maybe the experience will help certain users learn how to make videos better, and other users will learn more about what's funny and amusing. I think if Minis was inactive for too long, the YouTube audience would get bored and wander off.

I'd actually be in favor of doing that. Not sure who else would be wiling to help on the editing side of things, though.



Also, we need a new judge, I don't think Chewi's coming back. >.>
He was on for a few minutes one night, recently. Not sure if he actually did anything, though.
http://i.imgur.com/7Ff6p.png

[Shadow66]

Maybe we should get new judges who can put in a better opinion when it comes to which videos should get accepted.

[SleeplessPanda]

Maybe we should get new judges who can put in a better opinion when it comes to which videos should get accepted.

I'd like to think I'm a pretty good judge, I can watch a submitted video and know if it's AMV Minis material or not, some videos have potential but aren't quite there and that's when I say in detail what improvements could be made. I'm the first responder' on 95% of submissions, I log in daily to see if there's anything new, I take my job fairly seriously. AMV Hell is what distracted me while I was taking care of my dying grandparents, I lived and breathed it for a long time, it's in my blood. Minis is great because it's part of the AMV Hell franchise, it's like AMV Hell Jr., the first time I got a video accepted, it was pure heaven. Anyway, Zuiichi does a decent job, we could just use one new judge to replace Chewi, because he takes no pride in the position and hasn't judged a video in ages. If Haar' was a judge I imagine he'd be pretty hard on submissions that didn't meet his standards for quality, but his sense of humor and what makes for an entertaining video seems to be in the right place.

[thedarkmessenger]

^this

[Shadow66]

I'd like to think I'm a pretty good judge, I can watch a submitted video and know if it's AMV Minis material or not, some videos have potential but aren't quite there and that's when I say in detail what improvements could be made. I'm the first responder' on 95% of submissions, I log in daily to see if there's anything new, I take my job fairly seriously. AMV Hell is what distracted me while I was taking care of my dying grandparents, I lived and breathed it for a long time, it's in my blood. Minis is great because it's part of the AMV Hell franchise, it's like AMV Hell Jr., the first time I got a video accepted, it was pure heaven. Anyway, Zuiichi does a decent job, we could just use one new judge to replace Chewi, because he takes no pride in the position and hasn't judged a video in ages. If Haar' was a judge I imagine he'd be pretty hard on submissions that didn't meet his standards for quality, but his sense of humor and what makes for an entertaining video seems to be in the right place.

See thats what im talking about we should have people like this to be judges (I fell the same way as panda although haven't had a clip accepted yet) but when I watch the videos of Hell, Minis, and even Paradise I also have an opinion when watching other peoples videos and I see whats good whats bad and what needs improvement.

[Haar]

If Haar' was a judge I imagine he'd be pretty hard on submissions that didn't meet his standards for quality, but his sense of humor and what makes for an entertaining video seems to be in the right place.

I'd be willing to be somewhat lenient if the person really was doing this for the first time. After messing up around the second or third time, then I'd probably become a bit less lenient, seeing as I would have probably posted a link to one of the guides or given out links and instructions to freeware stuff by then.

[Guthix]

I started making AMVs way back in the day. 2001 I think it was. I got really into it, and it didn't take long before the hobby started to encompass my life. I was editing all the time. Whenever I listened to music or watched anime, my brain was constantly scanning for AMV ideas. An AMV creator was pretty much who I was.

However, it wasn't just that I enjoyed creating videos myself. I also enjoyed watching other peoples videos. I often loved AMVs more than anime itself. I enjoyed promoting the hobby and encouraging others to edit. I spent a lot of time helping people learn the ropes, and teaching how to do stuff. I took over the handling of the main technical guides over at animemusicvideos.org, with a primary goal of trying to make the content simpler and more approachable for newbies (whether I was able to succeed in that regard is debatable). Basically, i just wanted to help bring more people into the hobby that I loved.


reminds me of a joke i made in the past. that the minis was a boot camp towards org.

also i sugest skipping the passing the torch idea, it wont work

panda we have around 20 user average per day, of which prolly half are editors, what kind of minority?

[Haar]

reminds me of a joke i made in the past. that the minis was a boot camp towards org.
How so? Because it's halfway between youtube and amv.org? Also, when did you make that joke?


panda we have around 20 user average per day, of which prolly half are editors, what kind of minority?
I don't even think we have 20 people posting here half of the time.

[Guthix]

How so? Because it's halfway between youtube and amv.org? Also, when did you make that joke?


I don't even think we have 20 people posting here half of the time.

a good while back, when bambi and baka were still around

[Shadow66]

we don't need that many judges maybe at least 5 will do or so

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

I have been watching this discussion from the beginning... I think I may be ready to chime in.

First, I really want to thank Zarx for providing the venue and allowing me the opportunity to participate.

THANK YOU ZARX!

Now, about quality issues:
(Putting aside, of course, that the inclusion of my entries into the latest episodes may be the cause....)

Most of my entries have to be revised before they are finally included in the final cut. In every case, the input
from the judges helped make a much, much better clip. (The Blues of Hazzard clip went through at least 5 revisions
before it was ready.) Getting an opinion on my work is definitely a good idea and it has encouraged me to reach out to
other members for some input on some other things i've made but not submitted. I am very very grateful for their input <3 <3

Based on that, here's my suggestion: a 2-part process.
First, Zarx and the judges select the clips to be included in the episode, as they now do.
Then, why not a beta screening for a small panel to review.
It wouldn't have to be all of the accepted clips. Perhaps a run of the borderline/barely made it clips?

[Haar]

Based on that, here's my suggestion: a 2-part process.
First, Zarx and the judges select the clips to be included in the episode, as they now do.
Then, why not a beta screening for a small panel to review.
It wouldn't have to be all of the accepted clips. Perhaps a run of the borderline/barely made it clips?

Sounds like a good idea to me. Who would be on this panel?

[SleeplessPanda]

One or two more judges is all that's needed, we don't need a panel to tell us what submissions are bad and which are good. If the panel's going to be more about quality control, meaning they would hold submissions to a higher standard in editing and video quality, at that point we judges can just stop accepting submissions that don't meet the higher standards, we wouldn't need a panel to help us with that either. We know what's funny and entertaining, and we know what high quality submissions look like, we just don't see them that often. The panel just seems like a way for people to act like judges without having to go through all the hard work. o.o

[HellsDeathAngel]

Well yes quality would be nice but it seems like the fact of what people want to see the most is better clips that are funny. I think a panel or members pick has been talked about before in one of the mini threads before as something to try once for an experiment. It just seems that since season 2 started there have been more bitching about whats funny and very little about video quality. Quality should be some what at a standard now being we have better computers and software to work with, back in the early days of AMV's the resolution was low for audio and video and there should be no reason for poor audio and video quality now. There should be at least a minimum set level to what is acceptable but I thought that was already stated or given when entering a clip. Now the other question is what do your fellow judges think about you belittling them and are you that full of yourself to claim to be the greatest judge. Back on the note of funny clips I know you've said before that there are a lack of good clips coming in and have been putting the blame on the editors for a failing to see whats funny or saying they lost their touch due to various reasons. Is saying that helpful or harmful to the community, that might bring more hate to you or the site. Is there any posting for doing mini's on other sites like AMV Org to draw in some other member and idea's? Maybe there should be to help with bringing life to series if you say the editors we have now suck.

[SleeplessPanda]

Well yes quality would be nice but it seems like the fact of what people want to see the most is better clips that are funny. I think a panel or members pick has been talked about before in one of the mini threads before as something to try once for an experiment. It just seems that since season 2 started there have been more bitching about whats funny and very little about video quality. Quality should be some what at a standard now being we have better computers and software to work with, back in the early days of AMV's the resolution was low for audio and video and there should be no reason for poor audio and video quality now. There should be at least a minimum set level to what is acceptable but I thought that was already stated or given when entering a clip. Now the other question is what do your fellow judges think about you belittling them and are you that full of yourself to claim to be the greatest judge. Back on the note of funny clips I know you've said before that there are a lack of good clips coming in and have been putting the blame on the editors for a failing to see whats funny or saying they lost their touch due to various reasons. Is saying that helpful or harmful to the community, that might bring more hate to you or the site. Is there any posting for doing mini's on other sites like AMV Org to draw in some other member and idea's? Maybe there should be to help with bringing life to series if you say the editors we have now suck.

I never said I was the greatest judge, I said I'm the one who usually responds first on submissions and the one who spends more time commenting and working with people on their submissions if needed. I never said our editors suck, I said some people are good concept people and others are good editors but could use some work with their ideas. Please don't put words in my mouth, and don't assume you know what's best for the site or that I'm wrong in saying the user base just needs to submit better content. You're not a judge, you have no idea how many bad submissions we've rejected in favor of better videos that you guys still complain about, or how many times we've worked with people to improve their submissions. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[Haar]

Well yes quality would be nice but it seems like the fact of what people want to see the most is better clips that are funny. I think a panel or members pick has been talked about before in one of the mini threads before as something to try once for an experiment. It just seems that since season 2 started there have been more bitching about whats funny and very little about video quality. Quality should be some what at a standard now being we have better computers and software to work with, back in the early days of AMV's the resolution was low for audio and video and there should be no reason for poor audio and video quality now. There should be at least a minimum set level to what is acceptable but I thought that was already stated or given when entering a clip. Now the other question is what do your fellow judges think about you belittling them and are you that full of yourself to claim to be the greatest judge. Back on the note of funny clips I know you've said before that there are a lack of good clips coming in and have been putting the blame on the editors for a failing to see whats funny or saying they lost their touch due to various reasons. Is saying that helpful or harmful to the community, that might bring more hate to you or the site. Is there any posting for doing mini's on other sites like AMV Org to draw in some other member and idea's? Maybe there should be to help with bringing life to series if you say the editors we have now suck.
Whenever I referred to "quality" in this case, I really meant the overall quality of videos. That is to say, the humor, editing quality, and video quality. And no, the Minis are only posted on Youtube. We'd get laughed out of AMV.org if we posted these there. I mean, a lot of the clips are already clearly breaking the rules of that site. For one, you're not supposed to use downloaded footage there (a rule I assume hardly anyone follows anyway) but the presences of TV station watermarks seen on some clips would make it obvious that you downloaded that from some site.(unless you actually live in Japan) At least the people on AMV.org have the decency to crop out their watermarks when using that sort of footage. It may sound like I'm exaggerating, but trust me: Putting these on there would be a disaster for many reasons. The current excuse for them not being there, however, is that it would take too long to enter all of them in the catalog of the site. (You have to go through a few menus to upload stuff there that require you to list the anime and songs uses) That, and not everyone who edits here has an AMV.org account and couldn't be credited easily. (Which is sort of a poor excuse, seeing as how they uploaded AMV Hell 5 there, despite not everyone who worked on in having an account on AMV.org). Now, I've volunteered to make an AMV Minis account on there and upload every single episode of Minis to AMV.org, cataloging and all, but so far none of those requests have gotten any responses. Coincidence? Maybe, but who can say for sure?


Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
http://i.imgur.com/cDfUK.png

[Zarxrax]

Ok, so what I'm seeing is maybe we need more people judging. That's fair enough.

Additionally, what about a work in progress forum where people can post their videos that they are making in order to try to get feedback and help in order to make them better?
I mainly don't like this idea though, because for people who would look at that forum, it would ultimately ruin much of the surprise and excitement of seeing a new minis episode... Just a random thought though.

[Haar]

Couldn't we make it a private sections of sorts, kind of like The Lounge, and have a confirmation screen come up just to make sure there are no slip-ups?

[hosokawa37]

I prefer more judges imo. it would seem like a mess to authorize something like that. plus couldnt anybody access that page? seems like it would take the fun out of the minis that way

[adzman]

I mainly don't like this idea though, because for people who would look at that forum, it would ultimately ruin much of the surprise and excitement of seeing a new minis episode... Just a random thought though.
This.

Also I think quality would rise ten fold if people knew how to deinterlace properly. Maybe it's just that I encoded anime for a group for 2 years and it was the most time consuming to fix, but interlacing is what I notice more so then blurring and macroblocking.

[Haar]

Also I think quality would rise ten fold if people knew how to deinterlace properly. Maybe it's just that I encoded anime for a group for 2 years and it was the most time consuming to fix, but interlacing is what I notice more so then blurring and macroblocking.

In my opinion, deinterelacing is pretty simple, provided your source isn't interlaced. Given how recent the anime used in most in Minis clips look, I seriously doubt these people are using DVDs from the early 2000s, so there's hardly an excuse for the interlacing to be present. The instructions on how to remove that is in the guide to, but as I said before, I don't think most people read that.

Another issue I notice is ghosting in some clips. One of the downsides of using Vegas. Sure, you can fix it with that script, but I doubt most folks even notice it.

[Shadow66]

I agree, maybe just show videoes to certain members who takes it seriously and are online all time.

[Haar]

I agree, maybe just show videoes to certain members who takes it seriously and are online all time.

Judges?

[Shadow66]

Right, first do a judges tryout to see who's good, then once we get new judges we do wat I said.

[LawRayLiet]

Ok, so what I'm seeing is maybe we need more people judging. That's fair enough.

Additionally, what about a work in progress forum where people can post their videos that they are making in order to try to get feedback and help in order to make them better?
I mainly don't like this idea though, because for people who would look at that forum, it would ultimately ruin much of the surprise and excitement of seeing a new minis episode... Just a random thought though.


I'm against the new forum idea for many reasons. Mainly because I don't imagine it being used very much.
Also, I don't believe it would be nearly as effective in raising quality on as large of a scale as intended.
I know I would never use it. I prefer for my clips to premier in the episode.

[Shadow66]

I'm against the new forum idea for many reasons. Mainly because I don't imagine it being used very much.
Also, I don't believe it would be nearly as effective in raising quality on as large of a scale as intended.
I know I would never use it. I prefer for my clips to premier in the episode.

I agree, I prefer my clips to make da premier at da ep or @ hell.

[Guthix]

you know you can always make videos or picture guides for the stupid, since they dont read the current ones

[Haar]

Now, that would be a really good idea. I'd even make if myself, if need be. You know what they say, after all.
http://i.imgur.com/Iw5yq.jpg

[Shadow66]

Good adivce wit a bit of an insult.

[Haar]

To be fair, a lot of the people I show the basic guides to claim that they're too complicated.

[Shadow66]

I'm mor of visual guide then a literal one

[Haar]

And by "literal", you mean written?

[Shadow66]

Right watevr

[SleeplessPanda]

It sounds like we'd be saving a lot of trouble just bringing Haar' on as a judge to help manage quality control, since he can spot minor editing problems I'd probably miss. I mean, I can tell what a good looking video looks like, but maybe not as good as him since I don't use all those fancy AMV creating tools. He'd also make a good representative for the part of the community that strongly desires higher quality videos. I still think Matt' would make a good judge if he was willing to put the time and effort in, being he makes so many Abridged videos that look pretty good so he obviously knows a thing or two about editing, and his sense of humor is refreshing. That would be a 4 judge team: myself, Zuichii, Haar' and Matt', + Zarx' who I consider more than a judge. I think 5 people is more than enough to see if a submission is worthy of being in Minis.

[Shadow66]

I still think we should have try outs so everybody who wants to judge should have a fair shot although I agree Harr should be one.

[Haar]

I still think Matt' would make a good judge if he was willing to put the time and effort in, being he makes so many Abridged videos that look pretty good so he obviously knows a thing or two about editing, and his sense of humor is refreshing. That would be a 4 judge team: myself, Zuichii, Haar' and Matt', + Zarx' who I consider more than a judge. I think 5 people is more than enough to see if a submission is worthy of being in Minis.
Wouldn't Matt usually be too busy to judge, though? Sure he's been on a lot lately, but I think he usually comes on about once a week. That's still more than Chewi, of course.

[Shadow66]

We need people who aren't busy wit ther own projects and r online alot to judge.

[hosokawa37]

if it wasnt for school and work, i would have applied to be a judge already lol. Though I wouldn't want to so I wouldn't know what to expect at each ep of the minis lol

[jinzo64]

Until recently I was on here loads.
But I think I might be coming here more.
I'd like to giving judging a try.

[thedarkmessenger]

I'm on here often enough to be a judge, and I'm pretty much never busy. Not sure I want to be a judge, though....

[Shadow66]

It's not a requirement to enter to be a judge if you don't want to don't have to.

[SleeplessPanda]

If you want to be a judge, all you really have to do is just ask Zarx', there's no form to fill out or anything. I think Haar's well known enough, active enough on the site, and such a frequent contributer' to Minis that he'd probably get accepted to start judging when season 3 starts. As for anyone else interested in taking up the position . . I don't know, if you have a lot of history on the site you might have a chance, but after Haar' Zarx' might just decide one new judge is enough.

[Haar]

I count as a frequent contributor, now? Did that 20 video dump for that one episode have something to do with it?

[thedarkmessenger]

It's not a requirement to enter to be a judge if you don't want to don't have to.

Where in my post did I say I fell like it's a requirement?

[jinzo64]

sometimes people read things that don't excist or just missinterperate things.
So I just to ask ZARKS that shouldn't be to hard.

[Guthix]

If you want to be a judge, all you really have to do is just ask Zarx', there's no form to fill out or anything. I think Haar's well known enough, active enough on the site, and such a frequent contributer' to Minis that he'd probably get accepted to start judging when season 3 starts. As for anyone else interested in taking up the position . . I don't know, if you have a lot of history on the site you might have a chance, but after Haar' Zarx' might just decide one new judge is enough.

are you that retarded or you didnt read zarx post?

[jinzo64]

I think he might have missed reading Zarxs post.

[SleeplessPanda]

are you that retarded or you didnt read zarx post?

"Ok, so what I'm seeing is maybe we need more people judging. That's fair enough.

Additionally, what about a work in progress forum where people can post their videos that they are making in order to try to get feedback and help in order to make them better?
I mainly don't like this idea though, because for people who would look at that forum, it would ultimately ruin much of the surprise and excitement of seeing a new minis episode... Just a random thought though." -Zarx'

Being that was Zarx's last post, and I see nothing that would clash with my statement . . maybe you'd like to point out the exact quote that makes you think I'm wrong in saying all you have to do to apply for judge is just send a little message? That's how I got in.

Edit: Asking if I'm retarded is not constructive criticism, follow the rules of the thread or don't post.

[HellsDeathAngel]

While I'm not going to waste time bickering, the simple fact is everyone seems to agree that the over all quality needs to improve. All of us would hate to see Hells come to a stop, if a break is needed to make improvements then I'm sure all would welcome it to have a better product. Steps do need to be taken for this to happen to bring Hell back to the glory it once was.

[UTF]

While I'm not going to waste time bickering, the simple fact is everyone seems to agree that the over all quality needs to improve. All of us would hate to see Hells come to a stop, if a break is needed to make improvements then I'm sure all would welcome it to have a better product. Steps do need to be taken for this to happen to bring Hell back to the glory it once was.

People seem to always forget, that the Majority of Hell 3 (arguably the best one) was made by 3 people. SSGWNBTD, Zarx and Kitsuner. Unfortunately, involvement from the latter 2 has dropped off in the sequels, which I think is one of the major problems.

The other problem isn't so much the standards of the current videos. The problem is it's either them or nothing. There aren't enough videos being submitted to pick from. Even if all the videos submitted are duds, they're accepted because there's nothing else to choose from.

Guess what I'm saying, is I'd prefer getting no video at all, then getting the bottom of the barrel.

[SleeplessPanda]

People seem to always forget, that the Majority of Hell 3 (arguably the best one) was made by 3 people. SSGWNBTD, Zarx and Kitsuner. Unfortunately, involvement from the latter 2 has dropped off in the sequels, which I think is one of the major problems.

The other problem isn't so much the standards of the current videos. The problem is it's either them or nothing. There aren't enough videos being submitted to pick from. Even if all the videos submitted are duds, they're accepted because there's nothing else to choose from.

Guess what I'm saying, is I'd prefer getting no video at all, then getting the bottom of the barrel.

If the best submissions we're getting from the community are "bottom of the barrel", and you find no entertainment in what gets chosen as the best out of what we get, then maybe we really do need outside help. Personally, I think current Minis episodes are sufficiently entertaining and funny, the YouTube audience rarely whines about the quality and leaves plenty of likes and positive comments, it's the people HERE who can't be pleased.

[Guthix]

you know i would proceed with this sharade, but its too stupid even for me, im done here.

[Haar]

the YouTube audience rarely whines about the quality and leaves plenty of likes and positive comments, it's the people HERE who can't be pleased.
Watch this. Upon which, you should see why that's not a great argument. I'd prefer for you to watch all of it, but if you're in a hurry, you could just skip to the 7 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEwRY22XPiE

Also, I know I link to this article (http://theangryotaku.blogspot.com/2011/07/video-killed-video-star-anime-music.html) a lot, but I might as well do it again. Just skip to point #4, the part about self-esteem and you'll get the point I'm trying to make here.

[N.P.C.C.]

If the best submissions we're getting from the community are "bottom of the barrel", and you find no entertainment in what gets chosen as the best out of what we get, then maybe we really do need outside help. Personally, I think current Minis episodes are sufficiently entertaining and funny, the YouTube audience rarely whines about the quality and leaves plenty of likes and positive comments, it's the people HERE who can't be pleased.

Youtube users are not credible and even if they were, you mean to tell me things now boil down to if barely anyone says anything, it's ok? No one is going to get better then. That's the problem i have. Rightly done criticism goes a long way - as i feel some of what i picked up here went a long way to making me able to make decent stuff. I find most people aren't like me and don't want to be their own worst critic as that alone could make a world of difference.

I owe amv hell for my improved editing skills but i guess new editors may not be as lucky if things are this lax.

[SleeplessPanda]

you know i would proceed with this sharade, but its too stupid even for me, im done here.

That's what I thought. Thank you for being honest.

[SleeplessPanda]

Watch this. Upon which, you should see why that's not a great argument. I'd prefer for you to watch all of it, but if you're in a hurry, you could just skip to the 7 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEwRY22XPiE

Also, I know I link to this article (http://theangryotaku.blogspot.com/2011/07/video-killed-video-star-anime-music.html) a lot, but I might as well do it again. Just skip to point #4, the part about self-esteem and you'll get the point I'm trying to make here.

Yeah I'm familiar with those guys, I love how they tear into bad Let's Players. Anyway, I know there's people on YouTube who are somewhat dim and support bad content, but Minis doesn't attract those sort of people, our audience has much better taste.

[SleeplessPanda]

Youtube users are not credible and even if they were, you mean to tell me things now boil down to if barely anyone says anything, it's ok? No one is going to get better then. That's the problem i have. Rightly done criticism goes a long way - as i feel some of what i picked up here went a long way to making me able to make decent stuff. I find most people aren't like me and don't want to be their own worst critic as that alone could make a world of difference.

I owe amv hell for my improved editing skills but i guess new editors may not be as lucky if things are this lax.

Have some faith in our audience. I know you think YouTube users are a bunch of dumb-asses, but our subscribers are much smarter than you give them credit for, they like Minis because it's more original and more entertaining than just watching some guy review a video game or some pointless cat video. If it makes you feel any better, I've personally increased my own standards while judging. I'll no longer be holding back any criticism, plain or generic submissions will no longer get my approval. Surprisingly, the submissions so far I've judged in that manner, people were happy to get the constructive criticism, which works fine for me, I think of you guys here like family and I'd hate for the community to think less of me because I'm being more strict.

[N.P.C.C.]

Have some faith in our audience. I know you think YouTube users are a bunch of dumb-asses, but our subscribers are much smarter than you give them credit for, they like Minis because it's more original and more entertaining than just watching some guy review a video game or some pointless cat video. If it makes you feel any better, I've personally increased my own standards while judging. I'll no longer be holding back any criticism, plain or generic submissions will no longer get my approval. Surprisingly, the submissions so far I've judged in that manner, people were happy to get the constructive criticism, which works fine for me, I think of you guys here like family and I'd hate for the community to think less of me because I'm being more strict.

You're entitled to your opinion but as far as i'm concerned, they are the LCD and not something that should be pandered to if we wish to improve.

As for the latter comment, did people rage over getting their clips rejected to deter this initiative prior? Even if they get mad at you, you're obligated to tell it like it is from the start. Didn't you say you took this seriously? Then you shouldn't have done it like that. I'm not saying be like amv.org users. I'm saying encourage people to actually raise their standards. Anything can be worded in a non offending manner if worded properly.

[SleeplessPanda]

You're entitled to your opinion but as far as i'm concerned, they are the LCD and not something that should be pandered to if we wish to improve.

As for the latter comment, did people rage over getting their clips rejected to deter this initiative prior? Even if they get mad at you, you're obligated to tell it like it is from the start. Didn't you say you took this seriously? Then you shouldn't have done it like that. I'm not saying be like amv.org users. I'm saying encourage people to actually raise their standards. Anything can be worded in a non offending manner if worded properly.

Actually yes, some people have taken it personally when they've had their submissions rejected, but all I meant was when someone submits a bad video I'm going to go FURTHER into detail on why I think it's bad, even if it might hurt the feelings of the person who submitted the video, and as far as generic and plain videos go, unless they're short enough and amusing enough to make good filler, I won't support them being accepted, and I'll explain fully why I think they're too plain or generic to not be accepted, and in cases where I think the submission can be saved I'll suggest more ways for the user to improve upon it. I wasn't taking it easy on people before, but I wasn't going out of my way to correct every little thing wrong about their submissions and I was supporting submissions that were C+ or B- quality+entertainment. I've raised my standards, but they weren't low to begin with . . . they've probably gone from medium to moderately high.

[Haar]

People actually get upset over having videos rejected? Isn't that sort of silly? I mean, it's not like this is a job where you get payed for each clip that gets in.

[thedarkmessenger]

People actually get upset over having videos rejected? Isn't that sort of silly? I mean, it's not like this is a job where you get payed for each clip that gets in.

I can understand why someone might at least feel rejected if their clips don't make it in. It is still sort of silly, though.

[SleeplessPanda]

People actually get upset over having videos rejected? Isn't that sort of silly? I mean, it's not like this is a job where you get payed for each clip that gets in.

I've had my judging abilities questioned before when I didn't support a submission someone thought was genius. Some people just don't like authority, and some people just don't like me personally. This was already a thankless job, and I have a feeling from here on out it's going to get more thankless. Oh well . . if that's the cost of improvement, then it can't be helped. I imagine if our YouTube audience likes the current Minis episodes, they'll go crazy over the new ones if we collectively put on our game faces and try to make something that'd appeal to even the more uptight AMV critics.

[jinzo64]

To have your efforts rejected can be hurtful.
but you just have to grin and bear it.

[thedarkmessenger]

To have your efforts rejected can be hurtful.
but you just have to grin and bear it.

especially when you know they're right :P

[Haar]

To have your efforts rejected can be hurtful.
but you just have to grin and bear it.

Doesn't hurt me.


especially when you know they're right :P
We've all got to start somewhere and be told of our flaws.

[jinzo64]

I don't mind being told about flaws as long as it's constructive.
but when the people reveiwing your entries come out with stuff like.
Erm Not that good, It doesn't realy help.

[thedarkmessenger]

Another reason we don't need Chewi as a judge anymore: "It's decent"

[Haar]

^I remember Panda and Zuii making a joke about making a drinking game out of every time Chewi says "I could go either way"


I don't mind being told about flaws as long as it's constructive.
but when the people reveiwing your entries come out with stuff like.
Erm Not that good it doesn't realy help.
I agree that criticism needs to be constructive. At the same time, I believe that people shouldn't be over the top in their critiques. I recall a guy making a joke about some video of mine just being "ZOMG FIGHTS" and he was right, but I thought to myself "check out the ego on this nigga." Got a laugh out of that, though.

[jinzo64]

^I remember Panda and Zuii making a joke about making a drinking game out of every time Chewi says "I could go either way"


I agree that criticism needs to be constructive. At the same time, I believe that people shouldn't be over the top in their critiques. I recall a guy making a joke about some video of mine just being "ZOMG FIGHTS" and he was right, but I thought to myself "check out the ego on this nigga." Got a laugh out of that, though.

A middle ground when critising somthing can be hard to do.
I guess I'll find out first hand how hard constructive critism can be when I start excepting submissions for AMV Hell Spinoff.

[Haar]

In my opinion, it's not really too difficult. I attempt to judge things with an even hand when reviewing AMVs. I only really "attack" flaws once I've pointed them out to the person in question several times. Of course, by that point, I've usually given up on the person.

[jinzo64]

I guess it depends on the maturity of the person doing the judging.

[Haar]

I'm not sure if "maturity" is the right word for this situation. Maybe "tact".

[jinzo64]

I guess Tact Would have been a better word in this instance.

[Haar]

Maturity is pretty relevant when we're referring to the people being judged, though.

[jinzo64]

I guess that's true.
Tact from the judge and materity from the subbmitters.

to be honest it's very rare that theres poor video or audio quality in the amv's it just some times the amv's have poor concepts and just seem to drag.

[Haar]

I notice clips having poor editing a lot of the time, in addition to the issue of dragging out and having poor video quality.

[jinzo64]

I notice clips having poor editing a lot of the time, in addition to the issue of dragging out and having poor video quality.

I'll agree with editing quality and the issue of dragging out but I personally noticed poor video quality.
maybe i'm wearing slightly rose tinted glasses.