[SilentChaz]

For a place that should be ideal for AMV/comedy fans to gather and enjoy a hobby- the level of vitriol and pointless arguments on this site is unacceptable.
It feels shameful to be a member of this community.

Can we please do something to help improve AMV Hell Forums?

The recent (and currently on-going) antics of the AMV Minis Challenge - Final Destination (http://www.amvhell.com/showthread.php?29066-AMV-Minis-Challenge-Final-Destination-WATCH-amp-VOTE!/page3) thread (pages 3-6 and counting) are a fine example of everything wrong with this forum; instead of engaging in sensible debate or discussion of the hobby we enjoy- a vocal minority of the members here derail a thread by continually attacking the personalities of other members for no gain, and nobody objects.
There seems to be an unspoken “that’s just the way things are around here” attitude on this forum, and that isn’t good enough.

The hearts of the community here aren’t about to be swayed by this little plea of mine; the sensible members are still going to be sensible, and the trolls will still be trolls; so I ask that the people in power- the moderators take action.

Something as simple as flexing a little muscle and cracking down on insulting posts; splitting tangents from threads; or exercising a ban-hammer now and again could go a long way towards improving these forums, restore a little order and make things more inviting for newcomers.
Perhaps the appointment of a new moderator- a “community officer” of sorts could be considered, for a short period?

Something.


Kindly keep your unfunny “If you don’t like AMV Hell then you can get out” image macros to yourselves. As alien as the thought may seem- some people here actually want these forums to improve, and just might be willing to take steps towards achieving that goal.

[milleniummaster18]

On the other hand, it should be considered that (since we're humans) arguments are bound to occur every now and then. It's important for the moderating teams to exercise good discretion by not removing pertinent arguments and allowing courses of discussion, inflammatory or not, if they believe there's something to gain from the overall outcome. Should the vitriol (or overall amount of thread derailing responses) get to a point where topic related contributions come to a halt, it's the responsibility of the moderator to attempt to defuse the situation through warnings before taking any sort of moderating action. It's better to see a thread where its course of argument has gotten inflammatory and back to normal than seeing mere censorship. It shows more respect for the users contributions and a more positive character for the site's community: it's gone through hell and back, therefore it knows what it's doing.

[adzman]

**** YOU MILLENIUMMASTER18! Don't go assuming we're all human just because YOU are!

Bigot.

[jinzo64]

There are lot of sensible, coherent arguments and discussions in alot of the threads, which is really good as they make valid points which engage the community, This makes the site and the members better.

But the stuff that happening on the final destination thread right now is just pointless innate drivel.

I'd like to apologize for the stupid,immature and pointless posts i've posted in there recently and I will try to post better and on topic posts.

[Shuiia]

Well, let the hilarities ensue.

[milleniummaster18]

There are lot of sensible, coherent arguments and discussions in alot of the threads, which is really good as they make valid points which engage the community.

I disagree, I believe that there aren't many threads where any actual relevant discussion is put on the table.

[adzman]

http://i.imgur.com/DxZJZrR.gif

[Guthix]

cry babys first plea

youre a retard chaz, and im not saying that simply to insult, what youre asking for is equivalent of a claustrophobia patient to be cured by putting him in a cage

ive already told you, if you want the flames to go out, you need better content, because all these "antics" are more entertaining that all your amvs combined.

the tutorial video was a step in the right direction, though halfassed it may be

here, ill even throw a bone: make a thread for general editing issue solving. someone is making an amv, gets stuck, asks in thread, elite senpais answer, profit.

[milleniummaster18]

That would be implying people ****post because the quality is bad, which is a partially inaccurate statement. People also ****post arbitrarily. Common reasons include: they have nothing relevant to say and/or there's no one to pull on their leash. The rest are people who are flustered about the reception of their work and resort to petty insults (despite the criticism), people who promote ignorance through carefree comments (which we can't afford to have), among others.

[Guthix]

nothing relevant to say

i dont know about you but i cant talk about one friken video for a whole ****ing week [ and dont give me that tennis ****, id rather watch pewdiepie scream his face off then watch that garbadge]

the rest are flustered

not my fault you ****s go on ego power trips since the current system allows for the least **** video to win disregarding if its still **** or not, if the video were not **** there would be less negative reception for starters

[urahara1001]

I think a lot of the issues that have come up recently are mainly a direct result of the very competitive nature of the challenges themselves. Having that as the basis meant the goal was less aimed at creating a compilation of quality clips, but rather throwing clips at each other to see which is the best, and keeping it secretive all the while to avoid bias. As Guthix so eloquently put it, this all results in the competition being about the least **** entry winning. Competition breeds a competitive atmosphere, which in turn creates tension, trash talk, and so on. Of course most of this is going to be directed at the forum membership because those are the only people whose votes count.

I believe to improve the quality of the forums (and the videos being output with the hell label), our next major project needs to be less competitive, with more of a focus on community collaboration. The challenges succeeded in bringing in a bit of new blood for the contributions (myself included). I can't speak for everyone, but I know for myself that I got a lot of feedback on how to improve, and I believe my quality level has improved dramatically from where I started. Of course, there's still a lot I can learn (I hold no illusions that I'm that great, despite being given the 'elite' tag), and I know there's a lot of people who jumped in on the challenges later and/or less than I who could also use help improving. Either way, we've got some new people, now we just need to keep them interested and keep everyone on the path to improvement.

I know this all sounds a bit touchy touchy feel good and all that crap, but I still it's the way things need to go. Despite everyone here being a bag of dicks, we do still have a cool community and a great collective knowledge base. If we can get that directed toward cohesion rather than pitting ourselves against one another, I think we'll improve both in the quality of videos and on the forum.

[thedarkmessenger]

Uhhh....Chaz...weren't YOU every bit as hateful as the rest of us on here? I can easily pull up numerous examples from your post history, if you'd like.

*edit* Seriously, Chaz. What happened? Did you suddenly "find Christ" or something? I mean, it's better than Roman's 180 personality flip.....but still.....

And as sad as it is, Guts is right about the antics being more entertaining than the videos themselves. That's part of the reason we have these antics in the first place: they're entertainment.

[SilentChaz]

^Your point? Me being the most hated person on this forum isn’t an issue here.

I’m more interested in hearing your thoughts on what should happen if and when my words are truly off-topic, unhelpful, unconstructive, offensive and provocative to the detriment of the subject at hand.


moderation, in moderation
Agreed.

I would say that the moderation on this site has been unforgivably lax. This is a problem and needs to change now.


1. if the video were not **** there would be less negative reception for starters
2. you need better content, because all these "antics" are more entertaining that all your amvs combined.
3. i dont know about you but i cant talk about one friken video for a whole ****ing week
1. Negative reception isn’t really the problem here, everybody is within their rights to love and or loathe the video content produced by AMV Hell- but they can do so by being mature about it, not devolving threads and discussions into “****storms”. These are part of the problem.

2. Like it or not, this “better content” has been provided. The “Final Destination” AMV minis challenge video (a collection of all the videos voted most popular, no less) still isn’t good enough material for everybody to discuss sensibly, as can be clearly seen in its corresponding thread. This suggestion of yours is not likely to solve the issue.

3. Nobody is obligated to talk about a single subject for one or two weeks. Nobody is obligated to make irrelevant and pointlessly insulting comments either. See?


1. I believe to improve the quality of the forums (and the videos being output with the hell label), our next major project needs to be less competitive, with more of a focus on community collaboration.

2. everyone here [is] a bag of dicks
1. A lovely thought, Urahara, but lacking in details.
What kind of a project? Tell us. Will “community collaboration” really prevent the kind of nonsense seen in the final destination thread?

2. Why the negativity? Are you calling me a “bag of dicks” too?
That kind of rotten thinking hasn’t helped improve anything since you joined, and just makes you look foolish for joining a forum full of- and associating with- bags of dicks.
Drop this “that’s just the way things are around here” attitude, forchristsake.
Don’t settle for a community full of “bags of dicks”, demand something better.

[jinzo64]

I was invited to be part of collaboration project by a friend on facebook, But turned it down due still being new to video editing.

The idea was the group picked a song then each person got a section of that song then they'd sync up an anime to there section then send it in and it would all be put together in to one AMV.
We could try something like that.

We'd pick a song
Then we would pick a Genre of anime so the clips would hopefully sync up with each.
So you'd have similar animes rolling into each other like you could mech themed animes so a Gurren Laggan clip would roll into a gundam clip then that could go into a neon genesis clip and so on.

If the genre was mechs we could use something like Kenny Loggins Danger zone.https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dangerzone

[Zarxrax]

The problem, as I see it, is that quite a large amount of regular forum members contribute to off-topic and sometimes inflammatory conversation. It does not appear to be limited to one or two people disrupting the site. And that's what makes this a tricky issue. I could impose draconian forum rules, but if its impacting literally half of the members, then that could not only make a huge workload for the moderators, but it would likely turn away many regulars, or possibly incite some people into wanting to troll just for the heck of it.

I've been around a number of forums in my day. And I've seen how a lot of stuff goes down. Many may not remember, but animemusicvideos.org used to have an off-topic section back in the early 2000's. It was the most popular part of their forum, and got tons of posts. But the members were also quite unruly, probably not a whole lot different than what we see here. The exception was that the moderators did heavily moderate it for the most part. But despite the rules, despite people knowing what they are allowed and not allowed to say, and despite there being numerous moderators available to handle it, they eventually closed that section of the forum down, simply because it was too much trouble. That was one of the things that led to a huge decrease in their forum activity there, and contributed to overall lack of participation on the site as a whole. People felt that the site was just no fun anymore.

I agree that this forum currently kinda sucks. A problem is that there is typically not a whole lot of serious content to discuss. Curbing off-topic talk could likely curb all talk.
I'm certainly open to changing things around a bit. But its something that needs careful consideration.

[urahara1001]

1. A lovely thought, Urahara, but lacking in details.
What kind of a project? Tell us. Will “community collaboration” really prevent the kind of nonsense seen in the final destination thread?

2. Why the negativity? Are you calling me a “bag of dicks” too?
That kind of rotten thinking hasn’t helped improve anything since you joined, and just makes you look foolish for joining a forum full of- and associating with- bags of dicks.
Drop this “that’s just the way things are around here” attitude, forchristsake.
Don’t settle for a community full of “bags of dicks”, demand something better.

1. The lack of details there was by design, intended as more of a potential point to open discussion. I myself haven't devised any specifics, but I could do so and offer them as suggestions if there is some interest there. I'm not sure if this would fix the problem as a whole, but I do think a change in focus and direction on the primary project would help set the tone for the forums.

2. I'm meaning this more to refer to the harsh criticism and attitude that is popular among the forums, even touched upon in the self-promotion thread video (though toned down quite a bit compared to the usual). The sort of stuff that is typically free to be enjoyed around here because it's not intended seriously. It's the same kind of comedy one gets when they listen to someone like Lewis Black or the Angry Video Game Nerd. I don't have a problem with this, and in fact I really like this kind of humor. The problem I see is when people are no longer intending it as humor.

There are a few specific individuals where I believe this is the case, and I believe most people know who they are and know to simply ignore them. Yes, I do take a 'that's just how it is' attitude toward those people, because there will always be people like that in life, and I find the best way to beat them is to ignore them. If you engage in any way, they get a reaction and thus win. I don't believe the lack of humorous intention has spread to the forum as a whole.

Perhaps it may be more appropriate to say that everyone is dildos; they're just pretending to be dicks. There are a couple of actual dicks in the bunch, but no one likes them because they lack exotic colors and tend to go flaccid.

[Guthix]

1. The lack of details there was by design, intended as more of a potential point to open discussion. I myself haven't devised any specifics, but I could do so and offer them as suggestions if there is some interest there. I'm not sure if this would fix the problem as a whole, but I do think a change in focus and direction on the primary project would help set the tone for the forums.

2. I'm meaning this more to refer to the harsh criticism and attitude that is popular among the forums, even touched upon in the self-promotion thread video (though toned down quite a bit compared to the usual). The sort of stuff that is typically free to be enjoyed around here because it's not intended seriously. It's the same kind of comedy one gets when they listen to someone like Lewis Black or the Angry Video Game Nerd. I don't have a problem with this, and in fact I really like this kind of humor. The problem I see is when people are no longer intending it as humor.

There are a few specific individuals where I believe this is the case, and I believe most people know who they are and know to simply ignore them. Yes, I do take a 'that's just how it is' attitude toward those people, because there will always be people like that in life, and I find the best way to beat them is to ignore them. If you engage in any way, they get a reaction and thus win. I don't believe the lack of humorous intention has spread to the forum as a whole.

Perhaps it may be more appropriate to say that everyone is dildos; they're just pretending to be dicks. There are a couple of actual dicks in the bunch, but no one likes them because they lack exotic colors and tend to go flaccid.

what the **** man? its starting to look like im reading bad dick related fanfic

[hosokawa37]

Well, this is the internet, so it's expected for the forum to have dicks and egotistical a-holes, which generally stirs up s*** in the forums. For me, I come here to enjoy myself and enjoy going through some of the forums. It doesn't get fun, however, if there is a side topic which essentially becomes of contest of who gets to say "F*** you!" last. I agree it's hard to keep these forums in check with the few mods we do have, and they are generally busy themselves. I feel us regulars should be grown men and keep such things from happening, instead of stirring up more s*** and feeding the egotistical members.

I'll admit, there are times I call out certain things I find BS but I do it for the spirit of AMV Hell, as best as I can to make it contributory to the effort.

IN general, make this a community to welcome editors, both newbie and experienced, as well as fans to a place to enjoy themselves and not be scared because of a few certain members. There are reasons why I have been a regular/visitor/contributor for almost 5 years now.

[Akyho]

Reading through there is three things of note.

1:No mass collective project.
2:Competitiveness.
3:Lack of Moderation.

The last collective project was AMV hell 7 which may have just been released 5? months ago, the creation and submission of those clips was almost a year ago. A collab concept like what cough...cough...cough....sorry.....cough Jinzo.....cough..... said...might be a good idea. Not saying this is something for Zarx to do and to make an official AMV hell video, just something aside from Tennis threads from us. There was a number of larger projects by members, Decrucity and Jem being the notable two.

As this works into point one and two maybe causing more Cooperation as well as stopping us being a bored 13 year old in his bedroom jerking off all day.

Also the last moderation that I know of around here aside from Zarxs telling folks to simmer down in Final destination thread. Was Madevil shifting or locking Kintaro's trolling, followed by the hunt to ban all his troll accounts. That was months ago.

[pzykosiz]

I've only been regularly here since about August, and everything seems to be getting worse.

I did find this place was a bit hostile then to newer members/contributors at the time,
and as with other forums I've been on, sometimes the only way to get respect is to hit back a bit.

Everyone here, including me, have talked **** about other people (which wasn't in a joking way) at some point,
normally getting settled pretty quick, but it does seem lately that it is getting worse.

It does seem like arguments start on every other post these days, but it's not specific people starting it, it seems
like everyone has the ability starts fights, and a lot aren't even intentional

[urahara1001]

Got to thinking of potential collaborative projects (I believe that would still be relevant to the discussion here, though will probably need to split off in its own thread at some point), and I have an idea. We can call it AMV Back to School or something like that. A theme is picked like the minis challenges (gives us something to do with the tons of suggestions still left over), and everyone gets say two weeks to make a video. The collection is put together and shown, and everyone discusses it and gives ideas for improvement. Let's say you get a week for suggestions and then another week to update and improve your clip (or make another one if your whole idea is flawed), after which the finalized collection is shown. No voting, no competition, no secrecy for your submission (finding a partner to get suggestions from before the submission deadline is encouraged). It's all about improving ourselves and making a quality collection.

I have not done extended planning with this idea yet, suggestions are welcome.

[milleniummaster18]

Minis Challenges had lots of feedback and it still did not contribute that much towards the improvement of the quality. One reason was that a lot of contributors of subpar content did not ask for feedback, follow up on their clips, or request assistance because they were (and still are) not truly involved with the community, they just "hit and ran". (The competitive format didn't help things, either.)
Another reason was that some people were obtuse and stubborn, which we can do little about that but to teach them how things work, the hard way (by rejecting clips, a practice that was seldom present in the Challenges). It would be unfair and unreliable to control video submissions based on the contributor's forum activity, so the most reliable alternative is, as it always has been, to restore the minimum standards of quality back to how they were earlier. That way, people would have something to aim for. Making it to Hell has always been an achievement for people, we should strive to achieve similar (if not better) sentiments in Minis.

As for the forums themselves, it boggles me every time I see how little the actual Video Help forum is used. It's in the interest of the community to expand this knowledge
base so that there's less of an excuse for people to make work that's subpar in terms of quality, we can't really do much about ****ty senses of humour.

[jinzo64]

How to improve the community attitude towards each other, Will take time and effort.
We just need to try and be more polite and more constructive with our criticisms and opinions.

An Idea for future AMV Mini challenges.
Zarks picks the bases for the first challenge then the winner of the first challenge picks the bases for the next challenge, then the winner of that challenge would pick the next bases for the next challenge.

It could also be set up like a league so the top 5 videos get points
1st 10pts
2nd 8pts
3rd 6pts
4th 4pts
5th 2pts

[DXM]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/g640g60681g6.gif

that is all

[Backmask]

We could do with some more discussions.
As it stands, the Random Picture Thread often finds as much discussion, possibly even more, as the Video Games or What Anime Are you Watching threads.

[Akyho]

Minis Challenges had lots of feedback and it still did not contribute that much towards the improvement of the quality. One reason was that a lot of contributors of subpar content did not ask for feedback, follow up on their clips, or request assistance because they were (and still are) not truly involved with the community, they just "hit and ran". (The competitive format didn't help things, either.)
Another reason was that some people were obtuse and stubborn, which we can do little about that but to teach them how things work, the hard way (by rejecting clips, a practice that was seldom present in the Challenges)..


I was gonna come by and throw that sentiment in too, a lot of the fights that has been happening is well.... "AMV Hell Elites" vs newbie.

For the most part "AMV Hell Elites" would give criticism and suggestions for future projects to be met with stubbornness, whining and arguments (granted some of the criticism may have been a bit harsh in the first place.) most people in the challenges just do not take any criticism well.

When it was AMV Hell 6, 6.66 or 7 even with newbies coming around they would show folks clips be them "AMV Hell Elite" or not and ask for suggestions. In fact most folks even the ever guranteed to be harsh Guthix was pretty soft on them, if we saw a clip we were sure was absolutely terrible. We would suggest a new idea and address the issues of the clip and we would get a "ah ok.", we don't know if they took the advice or such but it did not 10 pages worth of arguments and trolling from all sides.

Infact the entire time of the Challenges I never saw people ask for help, who was not already a community member. All the newbies stuck to themselves, while the entire time of AMV hell 6.66 and 7 submission I see folks popping up asking "So hey I want to get into video editing." or "Hmmm I need help on this clip." which I was one of these folks and was supported at length in getting into submitting a decent clip for AMV hell 7.

A few of the Minis newbies have integrated into the AMV Hell quit well and those are the ones that ask for and take criticism. The one who do not never see anything wrong and everything is perfect. That is when a fight happens.

[pzykosiz]

Minis Challenges had lots of feedback and it still did not contribute that much towards the improvement of the quality. One reason was that a lot of contributors of subpar content did not ask for feedback, follow up on their clips, or request assistance because they were (and still are) not truly involved with the community, they just "hit and ran". (The competitive format didn't help things, either.)

possibly part of the reason was the fact that everything was secretive until the voting period was over.
people may not have wanted to reveal things before then

[urahara1001]

^This. I believe this has a LOT to do with the problem, and I think it was primarily driven to be that way due to the competitive nature of the project.

I for one did work around this some times and shared my clips with others to get feedback before submitting for the challenge. Not always did I have time to implement all the suggestions before the deadline, which is totally on me and I own up to it. But the ones I did apply the suggestions on I think were improved significantly, and I made sure to apply the advice to my future clips as well (I don't think I ever had the same criticism twice, except for not laughing, usually related to people not getting the joke due to either lack of knowledge of the reference ot just difference in taste, and that you can't really correct for). To get to this though, I had to 1) disregard the suggested rules on total secrecy and 2) actually talk to people to find someone willing to take a look and offer advice, regardless of whether or not I might be competing against them.

By the way, not trying to beat a dead horse, just reinforcing my point with additional ones being brought up.

[LawRayLiet]

I agree that this forum currently kinda sucks. A problem is that there is typically not a whole lot of serious content to discuss.
I think you hit it dead on with that point. When there's "not a whole lot of serious content to discuss", the arguments and off-topic banters people go on become some of the most entertaining things to read.
The content produced here can only go so far by way of a discussion, so what else?

Most forums I've seen have discussion based forums outside of an off-topic forum.
For example, an Anime forum where series have threads created for on topic discussion. Or even a Gaming forum where specific games may be discussed.
Sure a person could create a thread for specific series in off-topic, but the way things are now, it would just seem out of place. Which is why I think thread creation is mostly at a halt here.
Many think that there's already a thread for everything in which to post whatever you want.

For example, if you wanna post about a video game, they'll say you should post it in "The Video Games Thread".
If you wanna discuss an anime, you'll be directed to the thread "What anime are you watching now?".
But the problem with this is that it's very difficult to have any sort of lasting on topic discussion in such widely general threads. It just doesn't happen.

I view the homepage daily, and most all I see consistently everyday is:

Random Picture Thread
The Cosplay Thread
The Touhou Thread
Funny Gif Thread
Anime Lovely's - NSFW!
Girls with Glasses Thread - Possibly NSFW

Image dump threads, which sadly spawn more discussion then anywhere else, but like everywhere else, doesn't last beyond a few post until it's buried.
Having topic focused discussion forums I believe would inspire more thread creation and some actual lasting discussions.
Which this forum could really use. There's plenty of active members who visit daily, but like myself, find no place or topics to join in on discussing.

There may be other areas or ways to encourage meaningful discussions, but these were just some of my thoughts. I'm curious what everyone else thinks on this topic as well though?

[Distict5-9]

Having topic focused discussion forums I believe would inspire more thread creation and some actual lasting discussions.
Which this forum could really use. There's plenty of active members who visit daily, but like myself, find no place or topics to join in on discussing.

There may be other areas or ways to encourage meaningful discussions, but these were just some of my thoughts. I'm curious what everyone else thinks on this topic as well though?

I guess that our aversion to new threads might play a part in this. Perhaps the idea of creating a lot of threads, each of which revolving entirely around a single, somewhat minor topic, doesn't really sit well within this community. Maybe some sort of "Chatbox mentality" at work...? Or, heck, it might just be that, unlike the bigger forums that have those sort of threads, there's just not enough people to carry on a conversation on any single, specific topic for that long around here, so casual, sparse discussion tend to just be more fitting...

EDIT: Panda's "Recipe Sharing" thread (http://www.amvhell.com/showthread.php?29008-Official-Recipe-Sharing-Thread-%28No-need-to-be-an-expert-chef-%29-D&highlight=movie) is a good example of this dynamic.

Still, we could try to experiment and break the monotony a bit by getting a few more specific discussion-based/bait threads up to clutter the Off-Topic section. Might just reel in a few new users, for a change....

[LawRayLiet]

I guess that our aversion to new threads might play a part in this. Perhaps the idea of creating a lot of threads, each of which revolving entirely around a single, somewhat minor topic, doesn't really sit well within this community. Maybe some sort of "Chatbox mentality" at work...? Or, heck, it might just be that, unlike the bigger forums that have those sort of threads, there's just not enough people to carry on a conversation on any single, specific topic for that long around here, so casual, sparse discussion tend to just be more fitting...

EDIT: Panda's "Recipe Sharing" thread (http://www.amvhell.com/showthread.php?29008-Official-Recipe-Sharing-Thread-%28No-need-to-be-an-expert-chef-%29-D&highlight=movie) is a good example of this dynamic.

Still, we could try to experiment and break the monotony a bit by getting a few more specific discussion-based/bait threads up to clutter the Off-Topic section. Might just reel in a few new users, for a change....
From what I've seen, the aversion isn't to new threads per se, but to the creation of threads with no longevity that die within a few post. Especially so if it's knocking the more popular threads off the font page. I don't think most are against the idea of new threads if they're relevant and engaging.

Discussion forums wouldn't be created for topics of minor interest, but to facilitate areas of great interest based on the communities userbase.
In particular, the kind of threads that I'm thinking that have great potential for discussion are threads based around specific currently airing anime. If the life cycle of an average anime is between 3-6 months with episodes released weekly, then there will certainly be plenty of opportunity for good discussion over a considerable period of time.

I would be surprised if anyone here is currently satisfied with the level of discussions, because it certainly is sparse. From an admin level, it's about creating opportunity and encouraging more lasting and on topic discussions.

It seems like bit of an oxymoron to expect engaging on-topic discussion to be happening in an all generalized off-topic forum. I'm very interested though to see how much activity it would get, even if on trial basis.

[SilentChaz]

According to my clock- at 04:30 on 1/31/2015 a small request (http://www.amvhell.com/showthread.php?29066-AMV-Minis-Challenge-Final-Destination-WATCH-amp-VOTE!&p=553661#post553661) was made in the Final Destination thread. Its four days later now and it looks like this very simple action has been effective, the arguments have stopped (in that specific thread, at the very least).
Irreverent this place may be- authority is still recognised, it would seem.

Thanks, Zarx. I just wish stuff like this happened a little more often.


The problem, as I see it, is that quite a large amount of regular forum members contribute to off-topic and sometimes inflammatory conversation.
There’s no denying that many of us do end up joining in on off-topic/inflammatory conversation, but the instigators are few, and it’s these people that need a slap on the wrist.


Having topic focused discussion forums I believe would inspire more thread creation and some actual lasting discussions.
Couldn’t hurt.

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

The Idea of an MEP has been touched upon. These projects seem(ed) to be fairly popular elsewhere,
but don't seem to fly here. Pity.
Anyway, I have a skeleton of an idea for a sort of MEP team challenge.
Roughly, this:
An editing team of 4 (possibly a team Captain + 3).
>Each member does a 15 second segment (4 members X 15 s = 1-minute clip)
All teams will use the same audio source as topic, but may choose any 1-minute
section for their final project. Yes, the 4 clips must be contiguous.
>Video source is up to each individual editor.

Final projects could be polled for a winner like the challenges,
or just posted for comment/ridicule as per the norm....

Anyway, I could flesh this out more, but I'll put just this out there for now.
Thoughts?

[thedarkmessenger]

In particular, the kind of threads that I'm thinking that have great potential for discussion are threads based around specific currently airing anime. If the life cycle of an average anime is between 3-6 months with episodes released weekly, then there will certainly be plenty of opportunity for good discussion over a considerable period of time.


I approve of this idea and am considering the possibility of doing at least one of these threads for the Spring season.

[Zarxrax]

If I were to create additional forum categories, what might be appropriate?
A general Anime Discussion forum? Game discussion forum?

[thedarkmessenger]

In particular, the kind of threads that I'm thinking that have great potential for discussion are threads based around specific currently airing anime.

Just so everyone knows, I'm calling dibs on Nanoha ViVid.

[Sir Fluffykins]

Just so everyone knows, I'm calling dibs on Nanoha ViVid.

Zarx posts, after your post, so you then post, replying to a post, you could have replied to 3 days ago?

@Zarx. I think the forum is actually fine, but I'll add a vote for "Video Games"

[Guthix]

If I were to create additional forum categories, what might be appropriate?
A general Anime Discussion forum? Game discussion forum?

no

[thedarkmessenger]

Zarx posts, after your post, so you then post, replying to a post, you could have replied to 3 days ago?


I could've edited my post, but then there's a possibility people wouldn't see me calling Nanoha ViVid. Then again it's not likely anyone would care enough to make the thread themselves.

[milleniummaster18]

If I were to create additional forum categories, what might be appropriate?
A general Anime Discussion forum? Game discussion forum?


no

Agreed, such places have their own "containment thread", and they live up to the title.

Inherent disinterest in meaningful, constant contributions is perhaps one of the major reasons why threads don't branch out and become independent, not lack of focus. The containment threads serve as barriers that pile up very short conversations that do not have enough substance to live on their own (either because said conversations are incidental or they are done with very little resolve). Additional factors such as implicit thread creation discouragement, shown through many prior examples (with just reason in a lot of them, admittedly), also come into play.

If you want to cut the pressure behind creating a new thread by designating a specific forum for those miscellaneous topics, I guess it's a good idea in that regard. Conversely, it would likely promote the creation of either redundant or pointless threads. That is, if they manage to get any influx of threads at all to make their worth. That's why I advocate against further sectioning off the forums: we don't need better sections; we need more responsible, progressive attitudes shown in regard to content creation.

If you want to do something to the site, though. We could always use that "View First Unread" button working properly when the first unread post is actually a page or more behind.

[urahara1001]

Why would having short lived threads be such a bad thing? So what if the conversation doesn't last that long? Granted, I'd rather not have threads that just consist of a couple of posts that would be better left to the chatbox, but why is there such an aversion to threads that aren't likely to last for 100 some odd pages? I see this stigma come up a lot, and I really don't understand it. So long as the topic is interesting, what's the difference if it lasts for 2 pages or 200?

[thedarkmessenger]

Inherent disinterest in meaningful, constant contributions is perhaps one of the major reasons why threads don't branch out and become independent, not lack of focus. The containment threads serve as barriers that pile up very short conversations that do not have enough substance to live on their own (either because said conversations are incidental or they are done with very little resolve). Additional factors such as implicit thread creation discouragement, shown through many prior examples (with just reason in a lot of them, admittedly), also come into play.

This is another problem: interest. Sure we could have a million threads dedicated to individual anime....but will even the most popular one last more than a few pages? Only way I can see any real conversation actually happening in any new threads would be getting a lot more new members joining for longer than "hit and run". I don't think the active members we have now will have enough interest in these threads to make them worthwhile.

We can still try, of course. I just think it'll take more than just the threads themselves to achieve our goal here. It's not impossible, but it's also not guaranteed.

[Haar]

Won't making threads for individual shows attract "the wrong crowd" anyway? Do we really want people so badly, we'd have a bunch of guys that weren't interested enough in AMVs in the first place to join up here, but will join up if we discuss flavor of the month anime #9258?

[pzykosiz]

This is another problem: interest. Sure we could have a million threads dedicated to individual anime....but will even the most popular one last more than a few pages? Only way I can see any real conversation actually happening in any new threads would be getting a lot more new members joining for longer than "hit and run". I don't think the active members we have now will have enough interest in these threads to make them worthwhile.

We can still try, of course. I just think it'll take more than just the threads themselves to achieve our goal here. It's not impossible, but it's also not guaranteed.

would it be better if threads covered a genre of anime, as opposed to one each (such as action/comedy/drama etc),
or themed threads (such as by year/production company etc.)?

[jinzo64]

I don't think make new thread is the answer, what might help is if we can generate interest in the current threads that have died, like the cafe, the what are you playing thread, Isn't there already threads for general conversation about manga,anime and gaming.

But since this thread has gone things seem to have calmed down for the moment.

Random thing
Did anyone else see chazs new video on youtube?
He is all the awesomes.

[thedarkmessenger]

would it be better if threads covered a genre of anime, as opposed to one each (such as action/comedy/drama etc),
or themed threads (such as by year/production company etc.)?

That probably is a better idea, actually. We can always discuss currently airing anime in their proper genre thread.

[LawRayLiet]

Agreed, such places have their own "containment thread", and they live up to the title.

Inherent disinterest in meaningful, constant contributions is perhaps one of the major reasons why threads don't branch out and become independent, not lack of focus. The containment threads serve as barriers that pile up very short conversations that do not have enough substance to live on their own (either because said conversations are incidental or they are done with very little resolve). Additional factors such as implicit thread creation discouragement, shown through many prior examples (with just reason in a lot of them, admittedly), also come into play.

If you want to cut the pressure behind creating a new thread by designating a specific forum for those miscellaneous topics, I guess it's a good idea in that regard. Conversely, it would likely promote the creation of either redundant or pointless threads. That is, if they manage to get any influx of threads at all to make their worth. That's why I advocate against further sectioning off the forums: we don't need better sections; we need more responsible, progressive attitudes shown in regard to content creation.

I don't believe "Inherent disinterest in meaningful, constant contributions" is the cause. Rather, that there isn't currently any meaningful discussions to join in on.
On any forum, a user is far more likely to join in on an existing conversation, then to start one themselves. And the fact that new thread creation is treated with scorn, just adds to that hesitation.
Those containment threads are few, and despite that, barely see activity most days. The main threads seeing daily activity are the image dump threads.
Which like Backmask said earlier "finds as much discussion, possibly even more" then those generalized containment threads.
A discussion forum would just be a way for a person to find discussion outside of nsfw image threads and containment threads which see rare activity.

I'm also against redundant thread creation, but I hardly view a thread about a currently airing anime with potential for discussion over a period of months as redundant.
I also wouldn't view it as "sectioning off the forums". These discussions don't currently even exist, so you can't really section them away from anywhere. It would just be about creating the setting for them to start happening.
I know if there were a topic around a show I was watching, I'd join in on the conversation, and I don't see why others wouldn't as well.


Why would having short lived threads be such a bad thing? So what if the conversation doesn't last that long? Granted, I'd rather not have threads that just consist of a couple of posts that would be better left to the chatbox, but why is there such an aversion to threads that aren't likely to last for 100 some odd pages? I see this stigma come up a lot, and I really don't understand it. So long as the topic is interesting, what's the difference if it lasts for 2 pages or 200?
It honesty doesn't make much sense, I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind it as well.
The only thing I've come up with is the fact that it may knock the more popular threads off the front page, which many don't go beyond. Other then that a person should be able to simply look past it.
A simple solution would be to exclude the new forum threads from appearing on the front page, if a large amount of short lived threads became a problem in it(which i don't believe it would).


This is another problem: interest. Sure we could have a million threads dedicated to individual anime....but will even the most popular one last more than a few pages? Only way I can see any real conversation actually happening in any new threads would be getting a lot more new members joining for longer than "hit and run". I don't think the active members we have now will have enough interest in these threads to make them worthwhile.

We can still try, of course. I just think it'll take more than just the threads themselves to achieve our goal here. It's not impossible, but it's also not guaranteed.
What I had in mind was something like an anonymous poll thread based around each season, seeing what everyone may be watching and creating threads around the most popular of them.
Call it the exceptional topic, but I've seen an anime discussion last quite a while when it had it's own thead. (even if it did devolve into insults like everything else.)
http://www.amvhell.com/showthread.php?25896-Mahou-Shoujo-Madoka-Magica-Plot-Holes-and-or-Questions


Won't making threads for individual shows attract "the wrong crowd" anyway? Do we really want people so badly, we'd have a bunch of guys that weren't interested enough in AMVs in the first place to join up here, but will join up if we discuss flavor of the month anime #9258?
If a person is at amvhell.com, then there at least interested in some of its content. Which makes them the right crowd for this forum.
Plenty have come here with no interest in making amvs, but just for joining in on a topic of conversation and then eventually later picking of the hobby and becoming contributors. Myself included.

EDIT: Believe it or not, I still enjoy reading these forums when some actual conversations do take place. I'd just like to see it happening more often, and I don't think it will on it's own.
Zarx said earlier he believes the forum kinda sucks, which is a shame then if nothing is done to at least move it in a positive direction. Even if a discussion forum isn't the answer.