[Monon71]

I am the sponsor of the Plainfield (Indiana) High School Anime/Manga Club. The recent screening of AMV Hell 3 was very well received by the kids and it was screened TWICE last school year. However, there are some (very few at that) clips in 4 that just aren't appropriate for a high school club screening. I don't like editing or modifying someone else's work without authorization, so I would like permission or someone's blessing to do just that.

Thanks,

Tim

Plainfield High School Anime/Manga Club:
http://www.plainfield.k12.in.us/hschool/clubs/anime/

Tim Wootton, KB9ROF
Tech Service Engineer / PHS Anime/Manga Club Sponsor
Plainfield Community Schools
Plainfield Indiana USA

[Nerevarine]

could you specify exactly what clips you would be editing?

[Zarxrax]

Yea, I guess you can go ahead with that. It's no problem.

[AMVP]

I think I know which ones he's talking about (do we really need AMVs about semen?)

On a seperate note, you highschool has an Anime/Manga club? Sweet!

[Nerevarine]

I think I know which ones he's talking about (do we really need AMVs about semen?)

On a seperate note, you highschool has an Anime/Manga club? Sweet!


o... i have an idea which ones she is talking about

but its just that some of the more funnier ones were the raunchy ones :P

plus...i wanna know whats acceptible in school now, ive had alot of different views when i went, heh

[Kiarrens]

Probably that Robotssin (sp?) clip, too... the Excels in that were bordering on hentai.

[UNOwen]

How about the Najica/Family Guy Fart Contest clip. Funniest thing I've seen in a while, but I can see some uptight prude getting offended. There should be a death sentence for being a prude, honestly. The world would be much better off without them.

[Matt_Colly]

These kids are in High school...most of them smoke pot, are having sex with each other, committing crimes, and cursing more than CJ from San Andreas...i think some sexual content won't mess them up too badly. I think that anime shouldn?t be censored, and it is a shame that American production companies have to do it in the first place...you are in the anime club, you should be discussing this with your students.

I work for the public school system in Maryland and i was able to show hell 4 with no problem. I had permission forms and a description of content to parent/guardians who requested it. All was ok, and VERY well received.

[Tim Wootton]

To Matt_Colly:

First of all, if I could and get by with it, I would screen AMV Hell 4 complete and unedited. What can be done in Maryland often can't be done in other school districts or communities. I envy the fact that you had no problem showing it where you live, but the school district that
I work for is in a very conservative community. Hello, I live in INDIANA! :-[ Showing it "as is" could result in the loss of the club and quite possibly my employment there. Yeah, it sucks, but I have little or no choice but to comply with "community standards" such as they are. Making it worse is that some of the funniest clips/scenes are the ones that will have to be removed. :'( I would be just a wee bit curious to see and read the paperwork you sent out to the parents/guardians describing the content of AMV Hell 4. ;D

73//Tim

[Monon71]

Yea, I guess you can go ahead with that. It's no problem.



Thanks, the edited version will be shown at our club meetings only and it will not be distributed to anyone.

Tim

[UNOwen]

I whole-heartedly agree. Censorship is weakening our country. If you don't want to see something, it should be YOUR responsibility to not see it, not someone else's to make sure you never even know about it. But, alas, censorship is only the 5th thing in a fairly long list of things I would change about the world if I could...

[Poochoo]

This makes me a bit saddened... my AMV will be editted out..

Nahh it's cool, glad to know there are still cool teachers out there that will go out of their way to bring anime to students.

[Matt_Colly]

To Matt_Colly:

First of all, if I could and get by with it, I would screen AMV Hell 4 complete and unedited. What can be done in Maryland often can't be done in other school districts or communities. I envy the fact that you had no problem showing it where you live, but the school district that
I work for is in a very conservative community. Hello, I live in INDIANA! :-[ Showing it "as is" could result in the loss of the club and quite possibly my employment there. Yeah, it sucks, but I have little or no choice but to comply with "community standards" such as they are. Making it worse is that some of the funniest clips/scenes are the ones that will have to be removed. :'( I would be just a wee bit curious to see and read the paperwork you sent out to the parents/guardians describing the content of AMV Hell 4. ;D

73//Tim


Haha. Our state is kind of...well, i'm just going to come out and say that Matyland doen't have the time, efort, or budget to give a damn what i show the students. Be that a good thing...or not, i don't know. But it did lead to the full (*unedited*) showing of Hell 4. A few students left during the middle because they were offended, a few parents even came by to check it out (bringing with them enough tea and Pocky to engorge the lot of us.)

I didn't mean to sound brash when i said (basically) "show it regardless". I can understand how stringent the Indiana Public School System can be, good luck in your efforts.

Matt_Colly

[AMVP]

So the kids walked out while the parents came in with Pockey and tea? That's like a Sierra Mist commercial ("refreshing").

[Matt_Colly]

The parents were really cool about the whole thing. They had a few laughs.

[UNOwen]

True progress can only be made one step at a time.

[Ebellester]

These kids are in High school...most of them smoke pot, are having sex with each other, committing crimes, and cursing more than CJ from San Andreas...i think some sexual content won't mess them up too badly. I think that anime shouldn?t be censored, and it is a shame that American production companies have to do it in the first place...you are in the anime club, you should be discussing this with your students.


It took me a long time to figure out exactly what I wanted to say about this. Usually we can assume that most high school students know a lot about the world and just do whatever they want because it's fun, however the kids who don't want to be apart of that must be considered. What is shown and discussed at school students can't get away from so they can't take responsibility for what they are exposed to. You just have to hope that they have a good enough head on their shoulders to figure out what's right and wrong for them. I'm not at all saying that these videos are unacceptable because freedom of expression is very important. But I feel you just can't throw drugs, sexual content, and crime out to whoever just because someone thinks most people do it. The thing called "peer pressure" doesn't always come from other students It's teachers as well. And if something is considered remotely inappropriate it should be considered that if shown to the wrong person they may go out and perform such acts and ruin their and other peoples lives. Messages and acts can not always be avoidable if the person does not have control over the situation and able to get away.

[Zarxrax]

I agree. I personally don't have a problem with censorship, as long as censorship is not forced upon people. Some people might be uncomfortable seeing certain things, and thats understandable. The kids still have the right to come and download the full uncensored edition if they wish.

[UNOwen]

It took me a long time to figure out exactly what I wanted to say about this. Usually we can assume that most high school students know a lot about the world and just do whatever they want because it's fun, however the kids who don't want to be apart of that must be considered. What is shown and discussed at school students can't get away from so they can't take responsibility for what they are exposed to. You just have to hope that they have a good enough head on their shoulders to figure out what's right and wrong for them. I'm not at all saying that these videos are unacceptable because freedom of expression is very important. But I feel you just can't throw drugs, sexual content, and crime out to whoever just because someone thinks most people do it. The thing called "peer pressure" doesn't always come from other students It's teachers as well. And if something is considered remotely inappropriate it should be considered that if shown to the wrong person they may go out and perform such acts and ruin their and other peoples lives. Messages and acts can not always be avoidable if the person does not have control over the situation and able to get away.


I'm glad you took your time for a well thought out post. Now, we can get right to thte heat of things without going through too much pointless discussion.

I feel it should only be the responsibility of Tim to inform any would be attendees of material they may/ may not want to see. After that, however, it should be the responsibility of the individual to decide (based on the information at hand) whether or not to view the material. I am all for the MPAA and the ESRB. I feel having a third party go through and highlight objectionable material beforehand is a great tool for those who wish to avoid particular material. On the other hand, I am against censorship based solely on their findings. I will gladly debate anyone who claims either organization is not doing their job correctly. Tim is not forcing the video upon anyone. The screening is voluntary, and as long as the students (and parents) understand what will be shown, I don't believe there should be a problem. Unfortunately, I am not a position of power to impose such a decision (....yet).

[death monkey]

i whould like to see an censored version not for my self but for showing others my parents both thought 3 was haliorus i even showed it at a church event with a little self edting but i couldnt get by doing that with 4 so an edited version for no hard core anime fans whould be nice and all i actually no a guy who edited 0 down to about pg its all of 4 minuts long but he got away with showing it at school


and oh my god i cant belive that guy is a teacher

[AMVP]

Actually, I wouldn't mind having an edited copy myself. Not so much for my friends, it's just that my sister likes AMV Hell too and it could get a little awkward (really hard word to spell) at times. Funny thing is, she's actually older than I am!

But the real reason I'm writing.... is to point out my awsome new avatar! Heck I've even got a kick *ss signiture to go with it.

[UNOwen]

My (younger) sister has enjoyed every AMV Hell so far (except for 0, but that one was meant to be off-putting). Seriously, quit yer bellyaching.

[AMVP]

OK

[Matt_Colly]

These kids are in High school...most of them smoke pot, are having sex with each other, committing crimes, and cursing more than CJ from San Andreas...i think some sexual content won't mess them up too badly. I think that anime shouldn?t be censored, and it is a shame that American production companies have to do it in the first place...you are in the anime club, you should be discussing this with your students.


It took me a long time to figure out exactly what I wanted to say about this. Usually we can assume that most high school students know a lot about the world and just do whatever they want because it's fun, however the kids who don't want to be apart of that must be considered. What is shown and discussed at school students can't get away from so they can't take responsibility for what they are exposed to. You just have to hope that they have a good enough head on their shoulders to figure out what's right and wrong for them. I'm not at all saying that these videos are unacceptable because freedom of expression is very important. But I feel you just can't throw drugs, sexual content, and crime out to whoever just because someone thinks most people do it. The thing called "peer pressure" doesn't always come from other students It's teachers as well. And if something is considered remotely inappropriate it should be considered that if shown to the wrong person they may go out and perform such acts and ruin their and other peoples lives. Messages and acts can not always be avoidable if the person does not have control over the situation and able to get away.


I work with high school kids, it is kind of my thing. When i first started assistant teaching in the English, creative writing department, i did my best to shield the students from questionable works and subject matter that boarded inappropriate. However, as i started to interact with the students, and they began to open up to me, i began to realize that these kids have experienced so much in their short time on the Earth. FAR more that i had when i was their age. It shocked me. There are many reasons why this could be so. The internet has opened up the world so that it can be accessed from anywhere, technology has made information available to anyone willing to click on it, and marketing uses sex to appeal to younger and younger audiences everyday. What i am getting at is that i realized my naivety very early on because the kids could "sense" that i was holding back on them. I understand there is a time and place for content such as this, and most people would disagree that school IS the place for it, however i feel strongly about censorship and have tried my best to speak to my students as if they were adults, because they understand a lot more about the world than a lot of adults give them credit for.

What yall are saying is true too, however. And i did not mean to make a sweeping generalization of high school aged kids, but was attempting to juxtapose the innocence that is often perceived with school with the "taboo" nature of the "other" side of human nature. The drugs, the sex, the crime, all things we try and keep our kids away from. However, it is my opinion, and my teaching method, where dialogue is opened up about these topics so the student can grasp an academic understanding of these issues instead of learning through experience with them outside the classroom, and paying the consequences.

(i know that was long...sorry. Go have a popsicle ;D )

[Monon71]

The kids in the club have a pretty good knowledge of what is "ok" and "not ok". If there is something that they would like to screen, I make an effort to preview it and we talk about it. The kids run the show and I am there to provide guidance when needed. The kids already know how to find AMV Hell 4 anyway and most will have seen it beforehand. I told them about it and that in order to show it at school, some light editing will have to done. They were ok with that and would like to still experience it as a group on "the big screen". Not to brag, but one the school's lecture/large group instruction rooms has nice video/audio hardware. The club also boasts the second largest student membership, just below FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes). Sorry, I had to brag about that as well. The kids and myself have an excellent working relationship with a lot of mutual trust and understanding. Now, if I could just talk them into watching "Astro Boy" or "Mobile Suit Gundam"..... ;D

73/Tim

[Ebellester]

These kids are in High school...most of them smoke pot, are having sex with each other, committing crimes, and cursing more than CJ from San Andreas...i think some sexual content won't mess them up too badly. I think that anime shouldn?t be censored, and it is a shame that American production companies have to do it in the first place...you are in the anime club, you should be discussing this with your students.


It took me a long time to figure out exactly what I wanted to say about this. Usually we can assume that most high school students know a lot about the world and just do whatever they want because it's fun, however the kids who don't want to be apart of that must be considered. What is shown and discussed at school students can't get away from so they can't take responsibility for what they are exposed to. You just have to hope that they have a good enough head on their shoulders to figure out what's right and wrong for them. I'm not at all saying that these videos are unacceptable because freedom of expression is very important. But I feel you just can't throw drugs, sexual content, and crime out to whoever just because someone thinks most people do it. The thing called "peer pressure" doesn't always come from other students It's teachers as well. And if something is considered remotely inappropriate it should be considered that if shown to the wrong person they may go out and perform such acts and ruin their and other peoples lives. Messages and acts can not always be avoidable if the person does not have control over the situation and able to get away.


I work with high school kids, it is kind of my thing. When i first started assistant teaching in the English, creative writing department, i did my best to shield the students from questionable works and subject matter that boarded inappropriate. However, as i started to interact with the students, and they began to open up to me, i began to realize that these kids have experienced so much in their short time on the Earth. FAR more that i had when i was their age. It shocked me. There are many reasons why this could be so. The internet has opened up the world so that it can be accessed from anywhere, technology has made information available to anyone willing to click on it, and marketing uses sex to appeal to younger and younger audiences everyday. What i am getting at is that i realized my naivety very early on because the kids could "sense" that i was holding back on them. I understand there is a time and place for content such as this, and most people would disagree that school IS the place for it, however i feel strongly about censorship and have tried my best to speak to my students as if they were adults, because they understand a lot more about the world than a lot of adults give them credit for.

What yall are saying is true too, however. And i did not mean to make a sweeping generalization of high school aged kids, but was attempting to juxtapose the innocence that is often perceived with school with the "taboo" nature of the "other" side of human nature. The drugs, the sex, the crime, all things we try and keep our kids away from. However, it is my opinion, and my teaching method, where dialogue is opened up about these topics so the student can grasp an academic understanding of these issues instead of learning through experience with them outside the classroom, and paying the consequences.

(i know that was long...sorry. Go have a popsicle ;D )



You said "However, as i started to interact with the students, and they began to open up to me, i began to realize that these kids have experienced so much in their short time on the Earth." and then gave an example "The internet has opened up the world so that it can be accessed from anywhere, technology has made information available to anyone willing to click on it, and marketing uses sex to appeal to younger and younger audiences everyday." It is my thought that they have experienced nothing but only went to seek information not experience a situation. And they are only curious about something. Now it also can be said learning is also experiencing. But I don't think this is so. Anyone can read a book on public speaking and memorize the whole thing and a lot of people will still say they would rather die than speak in public. I think it's because they have no experience is this field. Now I know you are there to educate and I don't doubt your methods. I am going to assume that what you mean by "holding back on them" means that you are not talking about something you have experienced or know of something that can be related to the topic at hand. I am saying that it is possible to perk a students interest because you are a teacher or an "adult" into going further in a situation that they are curious about. And depending on what that is it could be bad for them.
(BTW this is not criticism just another point of view...This an anime forum what are we even talking about? Lets get some anime action in here. I don't want to talk about the school board :) )

[Adrian DX]

A few students left during the middle because they were offended, a few parents even came by to check it out (bringing with them enough tea and Pocky to engorge the lot of us.)

Hahaha, thats so cool.


but now I want Pocky... Stupid Norway (no, we don't have Pocky =(... and the manga store I work in are now not allowed to sell Pocky anymore since the product is not approved by some food quality check folks or something in Norway =S )

[joeygodsey]

These kids are in High school...most of them smoke pot, are having sex with each other, committing crimes, and cursing more than CJ from San Andreas...i think some sexual content won't mess them up too badly. I think that anime shouldn?t be censored, and it is a shame that American production companies have to do it in the first place...you are in the anime club, you should be discussing this with your students.

I work for the public school system in Maryland and i was able to show hell 4 with no problem. I had permission forms and a description of content to parent/guardians who requested it. All was ok, and VERY well received.

true...the permission forms idea will work.

[UNOwen]

You said "However, as i started to interact with the students, and they began to open up to me, i began to realize that these kids have experienced so much in their short time on the Earth." and then gave an example "The internet has opened up the world so that it can be accessed from anywhere, technology has made information available to anyone willing to click on it, and marketing uses sex to appeal to younger and younger audiences everyday." It is my thought that they have experienced nothing but only went to seek information not experience a situation. And they are only curious about something. Now it also can be said learning is also experiencing. But I don't think this is so. Anyone can read a book on public speaking and memorize the whole thing and a lot of people will still say they would rather die than speak in public. I think it's because they have no experience is this field. Now I know you are there to educate and I don't doubt your methods. I am going to assume that what you mean by "holding back on them" means that you are not talking about something you have experienced or know of something that can be related to the topic at hand. I am saying that it is possible to perk a students interest because you are a teacher or an "adult" into going further in a situation that they are curious about. And depending on what that is it could be bad for them.
(BTW this is not criticism just another point of view...This an anime forum what are we even talking about? Lets get some anime action in here. I don't want to talk about the school board :) )

Technically, this isn't just an "anime" forum. Its the AMV Hell forum. We are discussing how to spread the infection.... uh, I mean 'love'... yeah, that's what I mean!

Anyway, you put up the counter example of public speaking, saying that simply learning is different for experiencing. This is true. However, fear comes from lack of knowledge on a situation. You gain true knowledge on a situation by a combination of learning and experience. Someone who has learned of public speaking from reading about it (and not just reading the book, but actually learning from it) will be much more comfortable when they actually go up, as opposed to someone who doesn't know what to do. Secondly, watching something done non-interactively is still not experiencing (If that were true, I'd be a GOD in the sack, but we won't get into that....). All Matt was trying to say was most students are already familiar with the "objectionable material," much more familiar than most people would like to think. Matt's approach was sound. Simply imform everyone of material that a reasonable person might find objectionable, and let the students and their parent decide for themselves what is right. In such a lawsuit crazy country, permission slips would be a fine approach. If you find that the turnout for AMV Hell is too low, and enough students/parents are not okay with viewing such material, then you can go back and edit.