[Useful]

Alright, this is obviously a general election simulation. Since the independents don't have a candidate yet, I'm just leaving it out. It's not like they're going to win anyway :-\. Also, I made it so you can't see the current standings until after your vote, just like a real election. Of course, there's no paper trail, but hey, the likelihood of someone hacking this is pretty low.

And we all know who's probably going to win, too. :P

[Useful]

Does this count as double posting? Oh well, I don't care.

Barack Obama +1. My reasons: Though his platform is not yet fully formed, I do believe he represents a change in every way that counts. If he pulls us through this hard economic period, he will be hailed as one of the greatest presidents ever. McCain is swinging ever farther right, and is therefore actually alienating the people that might actually win him the election. On top of it all, I could never vote for someone who said, however joking he might be: "My friends, in these trying times in which we live, there's one thing all Americans can agree on: killing Iranians is hilarious."

[S.ifr]

CHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNGGGGEEEEE.
Yeah I had to.

Anyway, I think I speak for us all when I say that I don't mind double posting, as long as it's not annoying.

& on this topic, I've never liked McCain, everytime I turn on the TV and those idiots are talking about the updates, all that comes out of his mouth are how bad of a person Obama is and why he shouldn't be elected.

[Useful]

CHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNGGGGEEEEE.
& on this topic, I've never liked McCain, everytime I turn on the TV and those idiots are talking about the updates, all that comes out of his mouth are how bad of a person Obama is and why he shouldn't be elected.

Which is why we don't turn on the TV. Have you ever looked at a list of primary stock holders for Fox, CNN, or any of those? It's people like Rupert Murdock and Ted Turner. And they're accused of being "liberal media".

[S.ifr]

That is why I hardly turn on the TV. I just want to shoot up the place, but I am a man of peace.
=D

[Useful]

That is why I hardly turn on the TV. I just want to shoot up the place, but I am a man of peace.
=D

Sure... *glances at the killing thread*. Riiiiiight...

I WANT MORE PEOPLE ON!

[S.ifr]

I KNOW RIGHT!
This is going to be an epic thread.

[Useful]

WHO VOTED! SHOW YOURSELF! >:(

[S.ifr]

I think it was Theus

[Issitheus]

Damn

[1337uvis]

I'm not eligible to vote for the US president, but Obama is better. And he is pwning in this topic now :D

[Useful]

I'm not eligible to vote for the US president, but Obama is better. And he is pwning in this topic now :D

As expected! :D

Do you have reasons? I mean, you're EU, so you naturally lean left, but you still probably have specific reasons. Or more likely, reasons NOT to vote for McCain.

[1337uvis]

I don't know... first of all McCain is how old? 98? :D and Obama's talking about getting the army out of Iraq and well... he's a democrat! I don't like republicans, just look at bush!

[Useful]

I don't know... first of all McCain is how old? 98? :D and Obama's talking about getting the army out of Iraq and well... he's a democrat! I don't like republicans, just look at bush!

Alright, sounds good to me :D. Did you read the quote I found from him? It's on my second post in the thread. The saddest thing is that it's from his campaign website: they have a video of him saying it!

[1337uvis]

Damn, i mean, McCain is from the era when the USSR was leading the space-race ffs :D

[KazuoMM]

Had to go with Obama of course

he seems to be going in a more environmental path
well more so than McCain

but i would really like it if somehow the socialist party won

[Useful]

I know... but we've had some good old presidents. I prefer to never judge someone by their age. If you make any generalizations based on it, there's bound to be some pretty glaring exceptions. Experience doesn't mean much either, really. It comes down to who has the best approach to leading the country AT THE TIME, and I tell ya, McCain is certainly not the type we need more of.

This holds true for any elected official really, I just felt like throwing it out there.

I actually made this thread for a selfish purpose, Lietuvis: I wanted to be able to talk politics effectively with you. Because I'll tell you right now, my knowledge of Eastern European politics is shaky at best, and mostly it's a big old hole. So, lets pick something we can both talk about.

[1337uvis]

haha, another one interested in politics, very well :D Actually we have a parliament (called Seimas in Lithuanian) election this october and a presidential election of our own the following year, but we have no idea about the candidates, since every party is eligible for one candidate and there are about 6 parties that would be able to get a candidate elected. Also, about the parliamentary election, let's just say most of people are disilusioned now... top 3: #1- conservative party (awkwardly i'm for liberals, but since they would never make the majority, i just vote for the next best thing, since they are the least corrupt) #2 "Darbo partija" [work party] - absolutely populist party without any members that have political education whatsoever and created by a russian millionaire Viktor Uspaskich which is being prosecuted for tax dodging. #3 - "Tvarka ir Teisingumas" [um...that name just sucks] - they cal lthemselves liberal democrats but they are neither. They are just anothe bunch of populists and their leader is Rolandas Paksas, a president we impeached back in 2004 and he is now banned from any governmental duties. So... let's just hope the tides trun before the election here, but not in the USA

[Useful]

So... did that list of three include the party YOU'D like to see in office? I want to hear about them, because I don't think you mentioned them.

[1337uvis]

A party that the Lithuanian people would like to see in power does not exist [ i really wish to add "yet" to that...] so we just choose the best of what's there, sadly the populists do very much influence to rural area livers and people of older age, and in that way they get a lot of votes. Hel,, if i can find the vid on youtube, i'll show you how they defended the ex-president Paksas on his impeachment. I guess the liberals haven't had a shot at power, but that is because the people stil lremeber the soviet times: they either vote LSDP - social democrats (currently in power) or the opposite of them - conservatives (in power 1991-1995) and the disillusioned mostly pick populists... sad really. Liberals are quite a nice bunch, most have adequate educations to be in place of power (lawyer/politics/economy and liek that) but they are split up among themselves - there are 3 liberal aprrties, and given that the liberals as a whole are not popular, they never get a big say in the ruling, usually in the opposition or a small part in the ruling coallition. But if they were one party i'd sure vote for them.

[abyssion1337]

we have the same trouble here with our democratic party, this country needs one of them in office but they're spending too much time fighting amonst themselves

[1337uvis]

you live *where* again?

[abyssion1337]

the peoples repulic of China, or if your map isn't badly printed the US

[1337uvis]

heh, you're the one to talk... in the US geography books Lithuania was palced in the place of Belarus :D

[abyssion1337]

wow that's just wrong, my bro is a geography god so I usually ask him; and BTW I HATE how ignorant most americans are

[Useful]

we have the same trouble here with our democratic party, this country needs one of them in office but they're spending too much time fighting amonst themselves


Yeah... it stems from something else though: Basically, the Democratic party here is the party of special interests. There's a lot of people who want specific things changed about this country. But the number who agree on how MUCH things should be changed and which things should be our PRIORITIES are few. So you get the Rebuplican party, which is Conservative with and edge of reactionary thought and libertarian ideals which represents lack of change. If people are unsure about what they believe, or are tired of getting their particular special interest (thing they want changed) met, then they're likely to switch to being Republican. The biggest problem is that the Republicans know exactly what to do with a populace that's confused or scared. They're masters at playing to our fears, and are perfectly willing to take our freedoms away in the name of safety so long as they continue to make a profit.

So I vote Democrat, in the hopes that someday, we'll get it right.

[1337uvis]

my my, maybe not all communists are evil :D But then again all communists hate america, it's just the one of the few things we have in common.
*Useful's post* -> yeah, their "War on terrorism" is their main trump card ever since 9-11

[abyssion1337]

recent bills brought up by our house have been completely turned around by our senate; you both seem very well informed, have you read Mao's book?

[1337uvis]

Mao Dzedun? He's worse than Lenin :D

[abyssion1337]

He would have been great if he'd actually done what he said

[Useful]

recent bills brought up by our house have been completely turned around by our senate; you both seem very well informed, have you read Mao's book?

I'm sorry... I can't bring myself to read Mao. I'm a true proponent of communism, without leaders. I know that it can't work in groups of 20,000 or more, but it's still a nice idea.

And the congress thing... yeah, that's a problem. The other characteristic of Democrats is that they're ****ING PANSIES. And I use that in every sense of the phrase. They truly piss me off sometimes. I think they're currently suffering from what's called "Holocaust syndrome". You know, when the victim feels sorry for his oppressors? The only problem is that this country needs change, not concessions. They're letting the Republicans continue to run Congress, despite the fact that they're in the significant minority.

Sometimes I really hate my own party simply because they lack the capacity for hate. :-\

[abyssion1337]

you mean Stockholm syndrome?

[1337uvis]

in what way the Stockholm syndrome? as in the democrats feel the stockholm syndrome for the republicans?

[Useful]

in what way the Stockholm syndrome? as in the democrats feel the stockholm syndrome for the republicans?

Sorry about that, yes, I mean Stockholm syndrome. And yes, they feel it for the Republicans. See, in the U.S., Congressional elections happen every 2 years, twice as often as Presidential elections. The last presidential election in 2004 gave the Republicans the majority in the Senate and House (our two houses) for the 6th year running. By this point, they were practiced yes-men for Bush, and the Democrats were running scared, never able to veto a bill. Then the Congressional elections of 2006 gave the democrats majority in the House and Senate, though by a small margin in the Senate. The thing is, they continue to act like the Republicans are the majority party. I think it's kind of like Stockholm syndrome.

[1337uvis]

We have ABSOLUTELY the same in Lithuania (well not absolutely) the LSDP party is was running a majority for 6 years, and back in 2004 when the elections went all the partys got a small amount of votes and had to make coalitions. There were two coalitions, one of the opposition and one of the LSDP.. and now LSDP has MINORITY government.

[Useful]

Wait: What does LSDP stand for again? And which one of those is the more liberal party?

[abyssion1337]

I still recomend Mao's book

[1337uvis]

Wait: What does LSDP stand for again? And which one of those is the more liberal party?

Lithuanian Social Democrat Party - thhey are both not that liberal, even though the conservatives should be less liberal, but that's not the case

[Useful]

Wait: What does LSDP stand for again? And which one of those is the more liberal party?

Lithuanian Social Democrat Party - thhey are both not that liberal, even though the conservatives should be less liberal, but that's not the case


So the Conservatives are actually more liberal than your Liberal party? That's messed up...

[1337uvis]

no, the liberals ARE liberal, but they're never elected. And yes, the conservatives are more liberal than the democrats in Lithuania :O

[abyssion1337]

that's pretty messed

[1337uvis]

THANKS TO THE USSR! [Place for "Lietuvis' seal of approval"]

[Useful]

THANKS TO THE USSR! [Place for "Lietuvis' seal of approval"]

I'm not attacking your country, I'm just looking for a straight-up opinion here. How much of the political mess do you think you can still blame on Russia?

[1337uvis]

Russia, as officialy the receiver of the rights of the USSR should also receive the duties of the USSR. And at least ACKNOWLEDGE that there was damage done in the occupation. Basically if they just acknowledged the occupation AS A FACT and admit that it WAS an occupation or even just say "We're sorry for that" **** it, Lithuania would drop the 22 billion US dollars sue for reparations. But even though they always state the fact that "Russia is not USSR" than that should be even easier for them to say "Yep, the USSR did this, and as the receivers of their rights we say sorry for them." Hell, that doesn't even have to be a direct "Sorry" as ii just proved. And yes it's their fault. Lithuania was a nice and thriving country before the occupation, was actually the #2 exporter of linen in the world. Then during the occupation those 50 years changed the whole mentality of the whole generation which is now in office. They're corrupted by the wrong ways and stuff will not change until they are all dead. That is the damage done, we would agree to the deaths of the current politicians, which are lithuanian just to change things. THAT is the real damage.

[Useful]

Wow... that's particularly messed up. Especially because according to the World Court (and the UN for that matter), Russia is legally the USSR. And they won't even apologize? How long has this been going on? Because seriously, 22 billion is nothing for Russia. I don't see why it didn't pay it in a second, especially because (considering the GDP of Lithuania) it would be a great boon to Lithuania's economy and to Russia's PR campaign. Stupid Russians...

[1337uvis]

It's been going on since the day March 11 1990 when Lithuania announced it's second independence. Yes it would be quite the boost. But the reason why they won't pay is because if they pay to Lithuania, they have to pay to Latvia, Estonia, Georgia,Belarus (well, they wouldn't take it but still), Ukraine, Moldavia, and the list goes on... not even Russia can pay that much assuming that other countries liek Ukraine can ask for much more than 22 billion

[abyssion1337]

wow, I think they should do it although I can guess at why they wouldn't: should I post the live in russia poster again?

[Useful]

Yeah, 22 billion... that's a third of your GDP. And in other news, Russia could easily pay for ALL of them, their GDP is somewhere between 1 and 2 trillion.

[1337uvis]

Don't forget that they have a lot more people than Lithuania and therefore their expenses are a lot more, so those 200 billion would REALLY hurt their economy, which still isn't flying. And everyone is predicting an econimical crisis or at least the five coming years.

[abyssion1337]

honestly they're probably not doing it to distinguish themselves from the USSR: I don't know a lot about the politics over there but that seems likely, especially since most of the leaders were excommunicated

[Useful]

Careful there Abys... I don't think he'll like that :-\.



Don't forget that they have a lot more people than Lithuania and therefore their expenses are a lot more, so those 200 billion would REALLY hurt their economy, which still isn't flying. And everyone is predicting an econimical crisis or at least the five coming years.


Well... it's scale, see? Also, their economy is doing pretty good right now because of their increasing oil exports.

[abyssion1337]

whether or not he likes it is secondary to whether it's true or not; I did own up to the fact that I don't know that much about it. but if he's mad this should make it up to him:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff115/abyssion1337/Commycute.jpg

[1337uvis]

well that's the deal, Russia wants to take the rights of USSR without taking it's responsibilities, so eitheir you take both or take none and say that Russia is nothing like the ussr and is a new country like Lithuania, or say taht Russia is a continuum of the ussr in another form, and take the responsibilities along with the rights

[abyssion1337]

did russia want to take it or was it assigned to them?

[1337uvis]

oh no they took that by themselves all right and they keep repeating that.

[abyssion1337]

I see, then they should probably own up to it

[1337uvis]

...or renounce it. I mena that would be a cheap way to get rid of those billions of dollars suits, like "how can you ask money from us?! we're nothing like the ussr, we were victims ourselves!" but their arrogance just doesn't let them do that... yet again if their government was that kind of government that would do that, Lithuania wouldn't even ask for reparations, since then Russia would be a great neighbour and partner. I sure hope my 1000th post will be in this topic :D

[Useful]

Of course. Now they could of course claim to be a new country, but they'd be instated into the G8 and everything else instantly regardless. But they're not going to pay, I think. Unless they get a really liberal PM.

[1337uvis]

1000th post! WOOT!
And well, Russia has a total liberal ruling history of 0 seconds, so a liberal PM AND president is very "likely" to happen!

[abyssion1337]

so will it eventually happen or will the entire world be unified first?

[Useful]

Given the choice between those two, Hell will freeze over first :D.

We can always hope, though. That's why I'll remain an active Democrat as long as I'm alive.

[1337uvis]

And i'm a liberal ! ;) *That votes conservative party, omg! :D *

[Useful]

Yeah, but you have no choice. I mean think about it: I wanted Dennis Kucinich to win the Democratic nomination for president, but I knew he was too far left to win. So I would have voted for Obama (If I could have, I'm only 17 :P).

[abyssion1337]

I'm voting for Obama

[1337uvis]

If i were registered as an US citizen i'd vote for Obama! :D Also, i just noticed that July 2008 has been the month with THE MOST POSTS EVER on this forum! hooray for us!

[Useful]

That's strange, because it's had remarkably low traffic this month... go figure!

Edit: I almost didn't notice! I just hit 3000. Productive day :P.

[abyssion1337]

alright, one more has no life

[Useful]

Alright, last post off topic here: yeah... I was being pretty sarcastic with the "pretty productive" thing, but it's still nice. That makes 7 including SSGB... whatever the rest is.

[abyssion1337]

Alright, last post off topic here: yeah... I was being pretty sarcastic with the "pretty productive" thing, but it's still nice. That makes 7 including SSGB... whatever the rest is.

He still doesn't count, check the elitist topic

[Useful]

So I'm just waiting for Nyuu and Chii to find this. At least it won't be a shut out, that seems a little TOO unrealistic.

[abyssion1337]

won't chii go on and on about how good right-wing poletics are?

[Useful]

I don't think so. I'll just confuse the **** out of him and he'll leave.

[abyssion1337]

ok, try using something shiny

[Useful]

No, I've done it before. All I have to do is use some big words and he runs away. It's foolproof! Literally, it keeps away fools! ;D

[1337uvis]

terms like "geopolitical" "supra-national" and stuff? yeah, that would work on fools, they'd just go "bla bla bla bla I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" oh and just to be sure you can put in big non-political words like thermonuclear, semi-difractional... etc. Damn, now I'm really looking forward to that :D But after that i bet i'll feel pretty bad about myself, like picking on a retard: "What are you, retarded?! Oh..you are....um...sorry."

[Useful]

I know what you mean... but he's not really retarded. Just ignorant. I'm not saying he's really all that smart either, but I just can't feel guilty about doing it to him. Maybe it's because he's racist...

[1337uvis]

racist and homophobe... i just love teasing people that are stuck -up. Like i walk into a church with my head up high, a hat on, sunglasses, sneeze loudly and just watch the people react. And since Lithuania is catholic, not protestant, it's even a bigger deal :D

[Useful]

racist and homophobe... i just love teasing people that are stuck -up. Like i walk into a church with my head up high, a hat on, sunglasses, sneeze loudly and just watch the people react. And since Lithuania is catholic, not protestant, it's even a bigger deal :D

Nice! Yeah, church around here is really loose. We even have a "Come As You Are" service at 5:20 PM on Sunday that's really informal and short. Knowing you, you'd probably prefer that, right?

[1337uvis]

actually i have been to a church 7 times in my life. And that includes baptism. Never done the second communion or naything else. My philosophy is that if God really is, he sure doesn't need a church to know everything. Since by the logic of christians God is all-knowing. Then he should know everyone who believes in him even without them going to a church. They kinda contradict themselves. And lithuania doesn't really have that deep christian traditions. I mean ffs even though we were "christians" from 1400-some year, it was just a political game to stop the crusaders. The people actually werent christian up until 1600 so... the pagan roots still are very visible. Even the crosses made in Lithuania have suns and moons on them, a reference to the pagan beliefs. And there still is a strong belief in the public that nature itself is God, rather than some entity that controls everything.

[abyssion1337]

I'm with you on that, but I wouldn't go nearly so far as to call it god. Actually teachers here have lost jobs for teaching evolution and there have been laws that required a sticker to be put on text books that say "evolution is just a theory." There are none more religious than my friend and his family and even they belive in evolution; they laugh at the church they belive that god created evolution since he works on the fringes or something. sorry for the rant but the evolution vs. creation is one of the major problems I have with the church