[urahara1001]

Alright, I'll take the initiative from the conversation started in the Future of AMV Hell thread, and actually start a thread dedicated to making this a reality.

From what I can see, several things are still in concept stages. With Zarx no longer at the helm, we're going to need to get some planning done for how we want to go about things, and the decisions will be left to the community at large. At this point, organization and a point-by-point list of items to decide I believe are necessary to get the ball rolling.

The primary issues that I've seen raised so far are:

1. Who will judge which clips are accepted? Will it be one person? A group? A group with one person in charge as a tie breaker? Will only the mods be eligible? Or can it be someone voted on by the community?
2. What is the end product we want to make, and what format do we believe will best get us there? Do we want to give it a set release date as in the past? Do we want to change it up and use some other benchmark to decide when there's enough content, and let it just be polished until it's done?
3. When do we start collecting clips? How will we handle the submissions?

I'm going to motion that #1 be addressed first. I believe we need to decide on our management for the project first so that we can have someone to set the guidelines on how we collect the remaining information (such as deciding what minor items deserve a vote by the community and which can just be executive ordered, how long and what format community votes are taken in, etc.).

I further motion we designate a panel of judges, a small, odd number, either three or five, that will be the deciders in how the project is organized and what clips are accepted, by simple majority vote. To split the workload up to a reasonable level, the judges would be able to designate additional people in charge of certain managerial aspects, (For example, placing someone in charge of promotional work; online announcements, trailers [real or fake], etc.), but voting power would remain with community designated judges. To keep things simple to organize, I move we designate three judges to start with. If this seems to be insufficient, we can raise a new community vote for additions as needed. As part of the motion, I move we have a week for nominating potential judges, each nomination requiring both a second and the candidate's acceptance. After the nominations are in, we then have a further week for voting via hidden poll, with the top three candidates being chosen.

Any additional thoughts, input, suggestions, questions? Let's get some dialogue started here, I want to see this **** happen, people!

[Shuiia]

****ing hell you're fast.

[urahara1001]

I'd say 'that's what SHE said', but no... no she didn't.

[jinzo64]

It might be a good idea just to do a simple vote the people 5 highest scores could be the judges as long they are willing to take the job of judge.

[urahara1001]

I could break down my reasoning for taking this approach with nominations and then votes further, but I'm just going to save time and come out that the format I'm proposing is closely following Robert's Rules of Order. They're standardized, familiar for most people, and have stood the test of time. Some adjustment is needed for a forum format, where one doesn't need to obtain permission to hold the floor, members are not all present at the same time, and there isn't a ruling committee in place now, but sticking as close to it as possible should help keep things orderly.

[LawRayLiet]

What I had in mind was something along the lines of setting up a submissions forum similar to what we have here. Then having a group containing 3-5 well respected editors to judge and make decisions collaboratively on current and future projects.

[MasterChiefSnake]

I see. I will make a video featuring anime with different audio for AMV Hell. As you already know that, I just came up my idea for AMV Hell/Minis. Right now, I'm working on it.

[SuperLoliSentai]

Wait, what the **** happened today? What is this ****? Zarx's body isn't even cold yet and you guys are already raping the dead horse that he sired? Hmmm, I guess if you necrophiliacs start this now it will give you plenty of time to procrastinate.
http://i.imgur.com/DrzBMOy.gif


What I had in mind was something along the lines of setting up a submissions forum similar to what we have here. Then having a group containing 3-5 well respected editors to judge and make decisions collaboratively on current and future projects.

So just pander to the loudest individual that gets voted as a judge? This sounds pretty easy to me! Really though, I say don't have the judges views manipulated by a collaborative decision. Let them each critique the clips separately. If a majority likes the clip, then it is put in. Or better yet, they force the creator to do a second draft with critiques that parallel among the judges.


I see. I will make a video featuring anime with different audio for AMV Hell. As you already know that, I just came up my idea for AMV Hell/Minis. Right now, I'm working on it.

Ok, you must use Google translate for your messages or something because this **** is somehow worse than Guthix.

[milleniummaster18]

Wait, what the **** happened today? What is this ****? Zarx's body isn't even cold yet and you guys are already raping the dead horse that he sired? Hmmm, I guess if you necrophiliacs start this now it will give you plenty off time to procrastinate.

My thoughts exactly. Not the brightest of lads, as always.

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

It's not too early to encourage a discussion about the transition.
It's really time for something different, and this may just be a good opportunity.
Perhaps a minis-challenge type contest for submissions.

[MasterChiefSnake]

Ok, you must use Google translate for your messages or something because this **** is somehow worse than Guthix.

Alright, but I'm using English. I'm always using Google Translate. I lived in USA and I have graduated High School back in 2009. Sometime, I have problem with my grammar and the spelling error. Who the hell is Guthix? I've never heard of them. My idea is the scene from GinTama episode 201 where there is nasty left in the toilet that never flushed and the audio is from Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me where Austin Powers saw the nasty Fat Bastard's toilet and say "OMG! Fat Bastard Left A Floater!". I've seen GinTama episode 201 and Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me movie. Let me check the rules for AMV Hell/Minis right now. Going to repeat.

[thedarkmessenger]

Ok, you must use Google translate for your messages or something because this **** is somehow worse than Guthix.

Supposedly English is his native language...

[humnut]

Interesting idea, and it could very well work. Keeping Hell alive this way would be good, since it has been more of a community driven project since AMV Hell 3. Maybe we should test the waters with another season of the Minis series, see how everyone handles the new system and such, instead of jumping straight into Hell 8.

[urahara1001]

Wait, what the **** happened today? What is this ****? Zarx's body isn't even cold yet and you guys are already raping the dead horse that he sired? Hmmm, I guess if you necrophiliacs start this now it will give you plenty of time to procrastinate.


And when would be the best time to start then? After the interest has died off? After people have stopped paying attention because they know there's no new content coming out? After everyone has left and the body has gone cold?

No, we need to start now, strike while the iron is hot and people are still around and interested enough to consider the idea. Believe me, I've tried to get online communities back together after they've dispersed. It doesn't happen. Even if the forums stay online for years, that doesn't mean the user base will remain active. People need to be rallied now while they're still here. We may not even start on the project now, but we've at least got to get the discussion started on the groundwork now if it's ever going to happen.



It's not too early to encourage a discussion about the transition.
It's really time for something different, and this may just be a good opportunity.
Perhaps a minis-challenge type contest for submissions.

I agree, valid point, perhaps we wouldn't want to go with a full length video first off, but start off smaller with something more akin to the minis as a trial run. Regardless, we'd still need to figure out who is going to manage the collection and how, so getting judges voted for I believe is still priority one.



What I had in mind was something along the lines of setting up a submissions forum similar to what we have here. Then having a group containing 3-5 well respected editors to judge and make decisions collaboratively on current and future projects.

I'm with Loli on this one, judging collaboratively will just invite more opportunity for messiness. Not to mention the judges would have to watch and discuss the videos together in real time to be most effective, and organizing those logistics would mean things would never get done. I say it's far better to have individual viewing and judgements, though I would say that commenting on the judgements would be encouraged, which could be given to the editor to either fix the clip or improve for the next one.



I see. I will make a video featuring anime with different audio for AMV Hell. As you already know that, I just came up my idea for AMV Hell/Minis. Right now, I'm working on it.

Good energy, hold on to that, but don't leap out the door just yet. We've got to get the logistics of the project organized before we can officially announce the start of it. Or, to hand it over to Professor Oak,

http://37.media.tumblr.com/f9c4e11bedc691ac6792ae2c7b1763f9/tumblr_n4s6zk5ZGD1tswa0do1_r1_500.png

Go ahead and make your clip if you like, just realize we still need to discuss how we want to set things up before we can put it anywhere. Also,


Who the hell is Guthix? I've never heard of them.

You lucky son of a bitch.

[MasterChiefSnake]

Good energy, hold on to that, but don't leap out the door just yet. We've got to get the logistics of the project organized before we can officially announce the start of it. Or, to hand it over to Professor Oak,

http://37.media.tumblr.com/f9c4e11bedc691ac6792ae2c7b1763f9/tumblr_n4s6zk5ZGD1tswa0do1_r1_500.png

Go ahead and make your clip if you like, just realize we still need to discuss how we want to set things up before we can put it anywhere. Also,



You lucky son of a bitch.

Well thank you. This is my first AMV Hell/Minis without warm-up, prototype, and pilot. But please, don't use the offensive languages like the word "bitch" on me. Okay? I'm having social anxiety disorder. So my first AMV Hell/Minis is called OMG! Someone left a feces! featuring GinTama as anime and Mike Myers' quote from Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me as for audio. It is almost done now. I've also have YouTube channel. Here it is.
Master Chief Snake's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/CodeGeassGundamAMV)

[urahara1001]

But please, don't use the offensive languages like the word "bitch" on me. Okay? I'm having social anxiety disorder.

In this context, it's not meant as an insult or to cause offense; it's being used ironically to emphasize your good fortune, in this case for not knowing who Guthix is. Just didn't want you to worry on that point. I'll try to keep the need for more literal translation in mind in the future.

[MasterChiefSnake]

In this context, it's not meant as an insult or to cause offense; it's being used ironically to emphasize your good fortune, in this case for not knowing who Guthix is. Just didn't want you to worry on that point. I'll try to keep the need for more literal translation in mind in the future.

Okay. Thanks man. ありがとう (Arigatō) = Thank you. I will keep making more AMV since 2007. My first prototype version of AMV Hell/Minis is from Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu with Clint Mansell - First Person Shooter music and sound from AVGN (Angry Video Game Nerd) which I made back in 2011. Unfortunately I lost 2 videos are intro from Xenosaga The Animation with Eureka Seven 4th Opening Theme and Super Robot Wars: Original Generation - The Animation with Macross Plus - Information High music due to copyright problem. I did translate the language from Japanese to English beside Lao.

[SuperLoliSentai]

And when would be the best time to start then? After the interest has died off? After people have stopped paying attention because they know there's no new content coming out? After everyone has left and the body has gone cold?

No, we need to start now, strike while the iron is hot and people are still around and interested enough to consider the idea. Believe me, I've tried to get online communities back together after they've dispersed. It doesn't happen. Even if the forums stay online for years, that doesn't mean the user base will remain active. People need to be rallied now while they're still here. We may not even start on the project now, but we've at least got to get the discussion started on the groundwork now if it's ever going to happen.

There is such thing as too early, but like I said, this gives you ****s enough time to procrastinate.


But please, don't use the offensive languages like the word "bitch" on me. Okay? I'm having social anxiety disorder.
In all honesty, this might not be the community for you. This group is known for breaking people with less than thick skin. *cough*CitizenRoman*cough*

[MasterChiefSnake]

In all honesty, this might not be the community for you. This group is known for breaking people with less than thick skin. *cough*CitizenRoman*cough*

Well, I don't like peoples who calling me an any offensive languages like the world "****". It is not nice to me and make me sad, angry or fear unless you said good with offensive language as explain to me (just like "Death Note is ****" which I gave negative on him before turns out to be joke and he love Death Note which mean **** = Awesome as for a example).

[N.P.C.C.]

http://i.imgur.com/BnasOgW.jpg

For those who appreciate hypocritical humor.

[LawRayLiet]

Yeah, I could have worded it better, but I meant what loli said.

[thedarkmessenger]

Well, I don't like peoples who calling me an any offensive languages like the world "****". It is not nice to me and make me sad, angry or fear unless you said good with offensive language as explain to me.

You're gonna have so much fun here....

[MasterChiefSnake]

You're gonna have so much fun here....

Yeah. Just hanging out and do chat if I'm not in bad mood. Right now. I'm testing my first AMV Hell/Minis before I'll upload on my video and show you all. It is 90% of complete.

[pzykosiz]

I agree, valid point, perhaps we wouldn't want to go with a full length video first off, but start off smaller with something more akin to the minis as a trial run. Regardless, we'd still need to figure out who is going to manage the collection and how, so getting judges voted for I believe is still priority one.

would it be better finding out who's actually interested in judging first, before finding out who to vote on?
it may help avoid some issues later

[urahara1001]

Read the first post, psykosiz. My proposal is for nominations first, requiring a second and acceptance by the candidate.

[Sir Fluffykins]

One of my surviving clips, figured I'd put it here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaPXAt-O8EE&feature=youtu.be

[pzykosiz]

Read the first post, psykosiz. My proposal is for nominations first, requiring a second and acceptance by the candidate.

i'd already read that, i was suggesting it may be easier reversing the order of the steps.
however i may be wrong, it's only a thought

[urahara1001]

Ah, okay, it sounded like you thought I wasn't calling on the judges to accept before putting them on the poll docket. As I posted in reply to Jinzo, my main reasoning for following this format is because it goes along with Robert's Rules of Order. If we discuss and want to deviate from that, no problem, but we have to have a position to start at before we can move from it.

[thedarkmessenger]

Who the **** is Robert?

[urahara1001]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert's_Rules_of_Order

[adzman]

Okay. Thanks man. ありがとう (Arigatō) = Thank you.


Well, I don't like peoples who calling me an any offensive languages like the world "****". It is not nice to me and make me sad, angry or fear unless you said good with offensive language as explain to me (just like "Death Note is ****" which I gave negative on him before turns out to be joke and he love Death Note which mean **** = Awesome as for a example).

You and me, we're not going to get along. (also it's "is THE ****", everyone would assume "is ****" is negative)

In any event, I'm all for a new project of some sort. I think judging the clips should be just like the first two seasons of minis. Having some constructive criticism from multiple sources is very useful, for newbs learning and making the project better as a whole.




And finally, to no one in particular, ****ing **** **** whore waffle.

[Kaiju]

In all honesty, this might not be the community for you. This group is known for breaking people with less than thick skin. *cough*CitizenRoman*cough*

That or you embrace the community and you adapt to become just like it.

Also Social Anxiety Disorder excuse for your own thin skin on the internet is bull****. And this is coming from a faggot with actual autism.

[thedarkmessenger]

Also Social Anxiety Disorder excuse for your own thin skin on the internet is bull****. And this is coming from a faggot with actual autism.

as another "faggot with actual autism", I second this statement.

[Akyho]

as another "faggot with actual autism", I second this statement.

I'm spartacus! I mean I am autistic!

Anyways jibes aside.

Copy pasted from the future of AMV Hell threat as its kinda bogged down with who is the actual leader.

Ok so reading up I think this might be the better idea to form. We have just got AMV hell 7 out under Zarx's banner. Any AMV Hell 8 made by the community with out Zarx's or SSG as heads is going to have teething problems which would hamper any deadlines produced.

Followed with we do not know how filled for content 8 may get. So how about this 6 to 12 months no deadline (but with advertisement or something) this is enough time to work out teething issues and even change stuff and also look at the content submitted, then put a deadline on submissions (could be a month from then or 5 months, depends on how folks feel), one part to kick some folks butts into gear and also allow those who will edit it get prepped for the deadline date then edit the project. Test run it little and release.

In theory, I mean with AMV Hell 7 not that long ago out, Amv Hell 8 has a cushion of at least 1 year from now with the option for 2 years.

Actually with the comedy compilation August 1st, to the outer world doesn't matter its not AMV Hell officially just a weird competition. However AMV Hell 8 with a shorter deadline E.G 7 months is really gonna **** that up, so with a long time or no offical deadline then people who entered can recover and submit for amv hell 8.

A big complaint for folks making AMV Hell 7 clips was "I am burnt out from saving that wreck of AMV 6." which was about 8 months or so before submission ended and resulted in a few months before release, so came to about a year since AMV Hell 6.66 happened. Which was a bit harsh for those who really busted there ass for AMV Hell 6. So I further throw my confidence in unofficially 1 year and maybe officially 1 1/2 years to 2 years before finishing the project up.

Also someone tell inferno as I am sure he will want to weigh in and make some changes he has thought AMV Hell should do for some years now.

[Shuiia]

Also Social Anxiety Disorder excuse for your own thin skin on the internet is bull****. And this is coming from a faggot with actual autism.

he also claimed to be autistic. I have a hard time believing anything he has ever said. I even looked at his net activity and he does this kind of **** in a multitude of places.
Also needless to say claiming that any condition prevents you from doing anything is bull****. People born without arms can still function like any other person and people with half their brains missing can still perform complex tasks. I knew a girl who is dyslexic but could still spell and write better than any of her classmates. Even ended up doing some outrageous **** in university and a former ethics teacher of mine also was dyslexic as **** and ended up studying philosophy at University level. One of the most BASED teachers I ever had mind.
He is a Starcraft nut and told us about how he convinced his girlfriend to allow him to have a figure of Sarah Kerrigan under the christmas tree looking down on his girlfriends' christmas crib. Promptly showed him Persona and told him that he should play it. After that I had to go to a lecture and he had to head back to his office and on the way there we talked about MGS.

...should've asked him for his gamertags.

[thedarkmessenger]

Also needless to say claiming that any condition prevents you from doing anything is bull****.
Exactly. Having Asperger's makes it harder for me to communicate, but that doesn't meant it's literally impossible for me to put together coherent sentences. If you use your disability as a crutch, you'll never accomplish anything that you otherwise could have. Plenty of people with varying levels of autism/forms of autism have managed to accomplish great things regardless of their mental health issues.

And then there's plenty of idiots that just want to play "victim" their whole life....

[MasterChiefSnake]

Enough talk. I have supporting for autism and I did charity for autistic by playing the hard game and do speed run. My percentage for autistic is 20% according to doctor. Remember the anime show called Welcome to the N.H.K. where the main character is hikikomori? Hikikomori is a people who diagnosed with pervasive developmental disorders and autism spectrum disorders including Asperger syndrome and social anxiety disorder that the people want to stay home (as sloth) and also hates of outdoors. There is another anime that may somewhat similar to autistic is WataMote who has problem with social anxiety. Tomoko the main character has diagnosed with social anxiety if you compared to hikikomori including Welcome to the N.H.K. anime and manga. I have Welcome to the N.H.K. light novel, but I couldn't finished whole book. I'm stopped by chapter 3 (I think), but I will keep continuing to read Welcome to the N.H.K. light novel book. So let's talk about upcoming AMV Hell 8. I have to start all over because I messed up the video. Don't worry, I will finishing and upload on YouTube first before send my AMV Hell/Minis video to you.

[milleniummaster18]

Talk about a lot of horse****.

[urahara1001]

Okay, getting back on topic, what I'm hearing most loudly is that we may not yet be ready to put out a full project, and that people would prefer to do something smaller scale comparable to the minis as a test run. I'm also hearing that most people seem to be in favor of the idea of multiple judges, with some differences in opinion as to how many.

If these sound like fair summaries, then I propose we move on to actually nominating judges so that we can get an official list of people who are A) interested in managing a project and B) have at least some community support. The project we will eventually put together can be decided on after our judges have been elected. Once we have our list of candidates, we (probably I, since I started this one) can get a thread with a poll just for the voting. We can also continue the discussion on how many judges to pick from the popular vote more intelligently in this thread once we know how many candidates there are (no sense in deciding on 5 openings when we only have 4 people running, for example). Whatever number we decide, we'll take that many of the candidates in order of popular vote. To get a date and time set for it and to allow a bit more discussion beforehand, I would plan to "open the floor" for nominations starting at 12:01 am Central Time (since that's my time zone) on Wednesday the 13th, and leave it open for one week (ending 11:59 pm CST Tuesday the 19th), opening a thread with a poll for the votes immediately after. Unless I hear dissension from that idea before then, this is what I will plan on.

Does that sound agreeable to everyone?

[MasterChiefSnake]

Okay, getting back on topic, what I'm hearing most loudly is that we may not yet be ready to put out a full project, and that people would prefer to do something smaller scale comparable to the minis as a test run. I'm also hearing that most people seem to be in favor of the idea of multiple judges, with some differences in opinion as to how many.

If these sound like fair summaries, then I propose we move on to actually nominating judges so that we can get an official list of people who are A) interested in managing a project and B) have at least some community support. The project we will eventually put together can be decided on after our judges have been elected. Once we have our list of candidates, we (probably I, since I started this one) can get a thread with a poll just for the voting. We can also continue the discussion on how many judges to pick from the popular vote more intelligently in this thread once we know how many candidates there are (no sense in deciding on 5 openings when we only have 4 people running, for example). Whatever number we decide, we'll take that many of the candidates in order of popular vote. To get a date and time set for it and to allow a bit more discussion beforehand, I would plan to "open the floor" for nominations starting at 12:01 am Central Time (since that's my time zone) on Wednesday the 13th, and leave it open for one week (ending 11:59 pm CST Tuesday the 19th), opening a thread with a poll for the votes immediately after. Unless I hear dissension from that idea before then, this is what I will plan on.

Does that sound agreeable to everyone?
Yeah. You heard him. Back in this topic. So I must fix my video about GinTama - OMG! Fat Bastard Left A Floater! (the sound from Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me). I'm working on it.

[Guthix]

> no expierience/skill requirement to be a judge

bigest flaw of democracy is when its majority is retarded, it makes the whole system useless. future ****fest might be entertaining though...

[Akyho]

What if? Now dont kill me over this for what I have to say....but......what if you have 3 or 5 judges then vote like pop Idol or the voice or Britain's got talent?

With the aim to make clip owner's anonymous for the judges and just judge the clip, the clip thread is a poll thread with yes or no (maybe a maybe option?) and majority wins. With options for comments to the clip (ala Zarx's old method of "this is good" or "Make it longer" simple quality assurance comments not "This would be better if you edited it to make the other character the idiot." instead more technicals feedback e.g "You need a better quality clip, here is a source. as of now the clip has potential just clean it up." stuff like that.

[Bill Ein]

http://i.imgur.com/6h7gJ3D.png

http://i.imgur.com/0vRQxsc.jpg

[Shuiia]

Okay, getting back on topic, what I'm hearing most loudly is that we may not yet be ready to put out a full project, and that people would prefer to do something smaller scale comparable to the minis as a test run. I'm also hearing that most people seem to be in favor of the idea of multiple judges, with some differences in opinion as to how many.

If these sound like fair summaries, then I propose we move on to actually nominating judges so that we can get an official list of people who are A) interested in managing a project and B) have at least some community support. The project we will eventually put together can be decided on after our judges have been elected. Once we have our list of candidates, we (probably I, since I started this one) can get a thread with a poll just for the voting. We can also continue the discussion on how many judges to pick from the popular vote more intelligently in this thread once we know how many candidates there are (no sense in deciding on 5 openings when we only have 4 people running, for example). Whatever number we decide, we'll take that many of the candidates in order of popular vote. To get a date and time set for it and to allow a bit more discussion beforehand, I would plan to "open the floor" for nominations starting at 12:01 am Central Time (since that's my time zone) on Wednesday the 13th, and leave it open for one week (ending 11:59 pm CST Tuesday the 19th), opening a thread with a poll for the votes immediately after. Unless I hear dissension from that idea before then, this is what I will plan on.

Does that sound agreeable to everyone?

Sounds splendid to me. First time I've seen some form of a plan that I can actually see working and being a logical first step. Or maybe I haven't been reading much of this thread.
On another note, whilst this is a good idea I can't help but feel that we might have too few active members to make this work. For example, say we have 20 or so active members who want to contribute to this next thing we're doing and 15 or so of them put themselves up for judge duty.

Well, I guess it's not that bad considering but still. Could be a problem.

[urahara1001]

If everyone that is active wants to run for judge duty and can get a second, that's fine, we'll just have that many candidates. We'll just need to construct the vote so that we don't end up with everyone just voting for themselves and putting us in deadlock. The specifics of this will depend on how many candidates are running, of course, but my initial plan is to allow three votes per voter, since we all seem to agree that this is the minimum we should have. Even if we decide to use more judges, more votes available should mean we end up with a wider split, and we'll have less likelihood of running into ties. Again, this will have to be finalized based on the number of candidates and further discussion here, but that's my starting plan.

[Akyho]

If everyone that is active wants to run for judge duty and can get a second, that's fine, we'll just have that many candidates. We'll just need to construct the vote so that we don't end up with everyone just voting for themselves and putting us in deadlock. The specifics of this will depend on how many candidates are running, of course, but my initial plan is to allow three votes per voter, since we all seem to agree that this is the minimum we should have. Even if we decide to use more judges, more votes available should mean we end up with a wider split, and we'll have less likelihood of running into ties. Again, this will have to be finalized based on the number of candidates and further discussion here, but that's my starting plan.

For such a thing you could do a several point system, may be a bit complicated but you vote 1 for the person you think is the best, 2 for second and 3 so forth. The person with the lowest score tallied up is the first place, second lowest and so forth.

Meaning everyone gets voted just in order of preference.

[pzykosiz]

For such a thing you could do a several point system, may be a bit complicated but you vote 1 for the person you think is the best, 2 for second and 3 so forth. The person with the lowest score tallied up is the first place, second lowest and so forth.

i think that may be a better voting method for this case

[Bill Ein]

For such a thing you could do a several point system, may be a bit complicated but you vote 1 for the person you think is the best, 2 for second and 3 so forth. The person with the lowest score tallied up is the first place, second lowest and so forth.

Meaning everyone gets voted just in order of preference.
How many people here want to be judges? Seriously so much people? 50 or maybe 250 people?
Why not just take everyone who want and who have good minis in AMV HELL projects + everyone who want and who make good minis for AMV HELL 8? 2/3 or better of them will lose interest in judging after 6-12 months of the start of the AMV HELL 8 project. I know it because we make 5 Ru.Comix projects with judges system and for every next project we need the new judges because the old judges did not want to judge more. In every project we had only 3 permanent judges. 3 OF 12-30, CARL!
If you want minimum 3-5 judges - you must take minimum 9-15 people. You have 9-15 people here who want to judge and who have good minis in AMV HELL projects?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/5a/35/b3/5a35b398791dd3ac21fd57b4def2b650.jpg

[urahara1001]

Bill, I keep seeing you push for the 30 to 50 judges thing, but you're not getting any support. I understand this may work for you on your other site, and that's fine, but we have a very different user base here, especially with regards to contributors. Our contributors are not as transient, so we don't need an overage to compensate for the chance of people dropping out with no warning; that simply doesn't happen here. Your experience that you seem to be pushing does not apply here; it's a different situation. Regardless if it did, I'm not seeing any comments to say that anyone else here would like to see things run this way. Your idea is noted and appreciated, but unless we get some other people supporting it, I think we should let it lie.

[jinzo64]

Random Idea we put all the regular members names in to a hat and the first 5 to drawn will asked if they want to judge.
we'd have to film the draw and post it on youtube for confirmation.

Or we just let Guts judge everything.

[Akyho]

How many people here want to be judges? Seriously so much people? 50 or maybe 250 people?
Why not just take everyone who want and who have good minis in AMV HELL projects + everyone who want and who make good minis for AMV HELL 8? 2/3 or better of them will lose interest in judging after 6-12 months of the start of ]

Bill what you want it basicly what AMV Hell has done with AMV Challenges and this is the exact reason why we feel better with a smaller dedicated and respected group of judges. Hell if we kept it to the entire active community which is about maybe 15 then everyone making the project is also judging which also causes a whole host of issues and may very well become political. AMV Hell is political already just in the most stupid inane ways possible.

The main thing people want is someone they respect and trust, we randomly had people nominating folks if judges position did come up, my name was thrown up by a few people and they did so as they respect my editing (it is competent) respect my understanding of editing and more so trust my understanding of comedy.

There was other names for other reasons even a suggestion of throwing in someone with limited track record or lack of respect merely for a new and different viewpoint.

While others such as Silent Chaz or Real Inferno their names were nominated as they are firmly strong editors who also know good comedy so people feel trusting in their critical eye.

Silent Chaz and Real Inferno being the two people who would probably dedicate themselves the most the project were time allows.

Who has the time and who has the skills is a legitimate concern but AMV Hell Challenges is the main reason we do not want any more than 5 judges at maximum, we want the project to me more controlled than a thousand monkeys and a thousand typewriters as judges, instead the thousand monkeys and typewriters are instead the clip editors.

I for one prefer the thought of 3 yet can accept 5.

[LawRayLiet]

Just want to mention a potential problem with using the poll system here to vote on nominated judges. The poll system here and pretty much anywhere else, leaves it open for those who care enough to vote for themselves multiple times through either double accounts or proxies.
Don't think anyone would care enough to do that? Maybe, but I can tell you from inspections of Minis Challenges polls that people have used double and even triple accounts to vote for their own video multiple times and Zarx has had to monitor and manually adjust the poll results.

[urahara1001]

Thanks for the heads up. Any chance we could get that monitored for this as well, or would we be better off setting up something off-site where the monitoring can be self managed?

[Guthix]

Just want to mention a potential problem with using the poll system here to vote on nominated judges. The poll system here and pretty much anywhere else, leaves it open for those who care enough to vote for themselves multiple times through either double accounts or proxies.
Don't think anyone would care enough to do that? Maybe, but I can tell you from inspections of Minis Challenges polls that people have used double and even triple accounts to vote for their own video multiple times and Zarx has had to monitor and manually adjust the poll results.

why there were no names for public shaming?

[LawRayLiet]

Thanks for the heads up. Any chance we could get that monitored for this as well, or would we be better off setting up something off-site where the monitoring can be self managed?
Even with an off site poll such as straw poll, proxies can be used and there's not much that can be done to tell the difference.
The safest bet I believe would be to restrict who's allowed to cast a vote. Such as excluding Fresh Meat and Junior Members from being counted, or something along those lines. The poll could be set to public so those who vote are shown, or votes could simply be cast by making a post in the thread.

why there were no names for public shaming?
Zarx reasoning was this. We're aware of these accounts, so we'll let them continue confidently voting with it believing they're getting away with it. Where as if they became aware we knew, they'd possibly just make more, which he may have had a difficult time detecting.

[Bill Ein]

urahara1001, Akyho, now I understand.
You only want to rate minis. That's why you need 3-5 people.
Who will help newbies? Who is going to remaster good minis with stupid technical mistakes? Who can say to author: you mini is bad, but I have perfect idea how to make it better and we can make collaborative mini with you? Who can say: I have perfect idea for opening, credits, transitions? Who say: I want to do this because it's interesting to me?
3-5 - it is not a committee of judges, it's just 3-5 people. And it's not evolution of project, it's just modernized conservatism.
Time will tell who is right.

[urahara1001]

Even with an off site poll such as straw poll, proxies can be used and there's not much that can be done to tell the difference.
The safest bet I believe would be to restrict who's allowed to cast a vote. Such as excluding Fresh Meat and Junior Members from being counted, or something along those lines. The poll could be set to public so those who vote are shown, or votes could simply be cast by making a post in the thread.


Sound reasoning. I'm in favor of the membership restriction myself, since I believe we'll really want this to be the active members of the community, not just anyone who makes an account. As I said before, 20 thousand something members to the forum, and it's only a tiny fraction of those that are actually active. Personally I think I'd prefer to keep the poll hidden until the end just to avoid any voting bias based on who's winning/losing, and then if there are problems with that model we can use the public post votes as a backup.

Any other thoughts on this, people?


urahara1001, Akyho, now I understand.
You only want to rate minis. That's why you need 3-5 people.
Who will help newbies? Who is going to remaster good minis with stupid technical mistakes? Who can say to author: you mini is bad, but I have perfect idea how to make it better and we can make collaborative mini with you? Who can say: I have perfect idea for opening, credits, transitions? Who say: I want to do this because it's interesting to me?
3-5 - it is not a committee of judges, it's just 3-5 people. And it's not evolution of project, it's just modernized conservatism.
Time will tell who is right.

I think you've got it backwards. It's because we only wanted to rate the minis that we allowed all entries in and opened voting up to everyone. With few exceptions, there was no minimum quality requirement for entries to show up in the compilation. The community then judged which of these were best (or least bad, however you care to look at it).

For a large project, we want to impose that minimum quality standard. We want judges to really act as filters to say "yes, this clip can go in" or "no, this clip is ****". We want members who have been around here for a while, who actually know how to edit decently and look for flaws, to take up that role, and the nomination/election process is a matter of determining who the community feels would best fit that role. The judges would of course be welcome to give specific points, to say "Your clip is rejected because of X, Y and Z. Fix those and resubmit."

For helping newbies, that's what the forums are about. We have long had it established for the community at large to help people that need assistance with learning the basics or improving an existing clip. For handling specific jobs like opening/closing credits/compiling clips, I suggested these be positions that the judges could appoint to people (including one of themselves), though there are other methods that could be used to determine who gets those jobs. That's all up to the community to decide.

[Akyho]

urahara1001, Akyho, now I understand.
You only want to rate minis. That's why you need 3-5 people.
Who will help newbies? Who is going to remaster good minis with stupid technical mistakes? Who can say to author: you mini is bad, but I have perfect idea how to make it better and we can make collaborative mini with you? Who can say: I have perfect idea for opening, credits, transitions? Who say: I want to do this because it's interesting to me?
3-5 - it is not a committee of judges, it's just 3-5 people. And it's not evolution of project, it's just modernized conservatism.
Time will tell who is right.

Yeah thats really the size of it, we wish to conserve and try to keep AMV Hell as AMV Hell. No one is interested in making a hundred million views or making a Team Four star kind of youtube production company. We are a bunch lazy feckless flatulent oafs that stumbled into AMV Hell waaaaay late from the great days of AMV Hell, the AMV hell we were fans off first before part of the project. It seems pretty common opinion we want to try and return to the same grand days of AMV Hell even if it is not popular we just want to at least emulate what we think IS AMV HELL.

So your right modernized conservatism even is its a failure that it what the aim is. What actually happens is unknown as we are building this from blocks we have never seen before maybe the actual finished product is different from the idea we started with.

Would I be fair to say everyone else is on board with this thought?

As for your comments
Who will help newbies? Who is going to remaster good minis with stupid technical mistakes? Who can say to author: you mini is bad, but I have perfect idea how to make it better and we can make collaborative mini with you? Who can say: I have perfect idea for opening, credits, transitions? Who say: I want to do this because it's interesting to me?

That is what the AMV Hell community has done before and should do again. I myself on the tail end of Amv Hell 6.66 was not an editor a little while later I said "Hey I want to edit." and Haar threw me his copy paste help guide which he ALWAYS THROWS AT ALL NEW PEOPLE! then guided me threw it, SuperLoli as well as a few others watched and critiqued my first clip I made changes for the better and submitted it, it got in to AMV Hell 7. Follow this up with a few more clips edited peer reviewed and then submitted I got some more clips in.

I have seen a few people look at someone clip and go "I like the idea but your a terrible editor, give me episodes and times I will remake this for you." many times people look at someone clip say it is bad and suggest better. There are few collaborative efforts in the AMV Hell 7 which people often dumped ideas and a competent editor took it up and made it into AMV Hell. As for Openings and Credits we did get sourced into that as well suggesting music and such, in fact the music used with the AMV Hell trailer was created by N.P.C.C's brother who isn't even an editor around here as far as I know. Zarx even asked if anyone was up for doing an original multi song remix for the credits, it did not come through this time and we were asked about what would be a good ending song with Weird Al being the final choice, with SSG just doing what he does best with the end credits.

As for "I want to do this because its interesting to me?" well....just because it was rejected I am still proud of this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78iH104-U7U

I have uploaded it to youtube. People can create or like stuff not featured in a project.....and if not...make their own project. We have had Decrutcity forwarded by Haar, we have had the Jem project by N.P.C.C , Mecha Hell and a few others because...."it interested them" hell a bunch of people were using the AMV Hell Challenges to make what interested them.

Don't see were 3 to 5 judges stops any of this from happening. It just creates a focused level of quality and direction realy.

[Bill Ein]

urahara1001, Akyho, I watched all the AMV HELL projects and what I see? F*cking blending, black borders, ugly upscale and you say it's normal? You say "we help newbies"? HAH!
I watched the AMV HELL 5-7 projects and what I see? Stupid and banal jokes, repeat ideas and music from the AMV HELL 1-4 jokes and famous comedy AMV, some minis looks like clip from banal AMV without story and fun.
You think my English bad now? Yes, but 7 years ago my English was really terrible and I understood 95% of the AMV HELL 1-4 minis without subtitles and translation and they was realy funny. 95% of the AMV HELL 5-7 minis I can't understand without subtitles, and with subtitles they are still not funny.
Do you want to return to AMV HELL former glory? You need radical reform. F*cking revolution, f*cking evolution. An increase in the number of judges from 2 to 3-5 will not change anything. And it's useless to convince me in reverse.

[urahara1001]

Bill, if you've already got your mind made up, then why are you even bothering with the discussion?

As I already said with regards to the Minis challenges, which are the projects with technical problems you're referring to, there was no minimum quality standard on those. And yes, newbies are free to get help, but they have to take the time to look for it. We're not going to sit them down and show them how to do things without them having at least enough initiative to look for help first.

With regards to the content, it's not the number of judges that's important, it's who is actually doing the job. Do you not realize that it has not only been 2 people (let's face it, it's really 1) managing all the projects up to this point, but the same people? Zarx stepping back is the first real leadership change for AMV Hell in ever. That in and of itself IS a ****ing revolution. We don't need 20 people of questionable quality to step in and all try to do the same job, we need a few good people to step in and provide some new perspective, some new energy, to not be tired from doing this for years and actually tell people "No, that's not funny, it's never been funny, it's never going to be funny" in order to filter out that ****ty comedy that you're talking about. Adding 20 judges also isn't going to make people produce better content.

But as you've said, trying to convince you otherwise is useless, so go ahead and have fun sitting in the close minded section. We'll direct the fundamentalist Christians and the evolution deniers along with you.

[Bill Ein]

We'll direct the fundamentalist Christians
No god, no hope, only evolution, baby. Evolves or die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

Just a little clarification, maybe. I think I see the job descriptions getting blurred a little.
Is it assumed that the content judge(s) will automatically be the ones producing the final product,
that is laying the clips into the timeline and actually doing the video work?

As for Bill Ein's proposals, well I know he makes some really good clips, but even if all active members
of AMV Hell were conscripted as judges, I don't think we would have 20+.....

[urahara1001]

Tasks like that we would need to be asigned to someone, not necessarily the judges. My thought is to leave those kinds of things up for the judges to decide to either take upon themselves, simply asign it to a volunteer, or put it to a community vote. I did talk about that a bit in my first post, though I did leave it a bit vague since I wanted to make sure it was left open for discussion rather than just saying "This is how it will be".

By the way, that goes for everything I've posted here. This will be a community designed and ran effort. I'm just trying to give some direction. If someone thinks I'm spouting a bunch of crazy bull**** and they have a better idea, please, call me out and speak up. While there has been some discussion going on, I'm actually a bit nervous there isn't more. I'm hoping the silence from a lot of people doesn't mean they think I'm trying to take over and are tuning it out or think their ideas don't hold value. Or worse, that people are already just completely disinterested.

[thedarkmessenger]

I'm actually a bit nervous there isn't more. I'm hoping the silence from a lot of people doesn't mean they think I'm trying to take over and are tuning it out or think their ideas don't hold value. Or worse, that people are already just completely disinterested.

Maybe I just plain don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said better by someone else? "I agree" isn't exactly a super-useful response that adds a lot to the discussion.

I mean....I guess it can be helpful to know that I'm not just sitting here an taking it, but it just feels like any posts I would add to this subject would be useless "+1!" bull****. Thus far, at least. If I come up with anything I feel is at least slightly useful, then I'll speak up. Until then, I don't really need to pointlessly boost my post count.

[urahara1001]

In most cases, I would agree, though here posts just generically giving an affirmative would at least show who is paying attention and interested, and depending on the numbers would give the sign that the conversation is at least heading in the direction most people concur with. People can still sit back and just post when they have something more to add, of course, just throwing that out there.

[SilentChaz]

1. I can tell you from inspections of Minis Challenges polls that people have used double and even triple accounts to vote for their own video multiple times
2. The safest bet I believe would be to restrict who's allowed to cast a vote. Such as excluding Fresh Meat
1. Lordy, that’s the most pathetic thing I’ve ever heard.
2. Sounds good.


Is it assumed that the content judge(s) will automatically be the ones producing the final product,
that is laying the clips into the timeline and actually doing the video work?
For all intents and purposes, I say: Absolutely.

And following that assumption-

Although this won’t help solve any issues regarding potential cheat-votes, it might be worth considering a “judge test” of some kind be held to help determine a candidate’s suitability for the role.

One test idea may be this:
The candidate must compile a 2.5-3 minute video of skits using “AMV Hell 6: The rough cut” as its sole source. Skits which appeared in AMVH 6.66 however may not be included in the cut.

Tough, I know.

I’m prepared to put my faith in certain individuals and give them my vote without them performing such a test, but if nothing else- I would be very interested to see what kind of results this would show.

[Shuiia]

Although this won’t help solve any issues regarding potential cheat-votes, it might be worth considering a “judge test” of some kind be held to help determine a candidate’s suitability for the role.

One test idea may be this:
The candidate must compile a 2.5-3 minute video of skits using “AMV Hell 6: The rough cut” as its sole source. Skits which appeared in AMVH 6.66 however may not be included in the cut.


So you re-make skits, just pick a random clip and up the quality a bit or do you just use one of the sources from a clip and make a better clip with it?

Also I second Dark's statement. Usually by the time I have some time to catch up on a few paragraphs of posts here, anything I would've liked to add or suggest has already been suggested, analyzed and then either accepted or contested. Or things have progressed in such a way that it's a bit hard for me to follow what the current point of discussion is or if any actual decision has been made.

[SilentChaz]

This particular example I had in mind would involve no alterations on any skits by the candidates. They’re stuck with what they’re given.

The candidate will have to:
1.Watch a lot of entries, many of which will be awful (AMVH6 TRC has no shortage of these)
2.Pick out the best ones and
3.Order them appropriately to make the best possible compilation.

Essentially- they’re taking lemons and trying to make lemonade.
It’s a simplified simulation of what a judge will be expected to do.

[Guthix]

This particular example I had in mind would involve no alterations on any skits by the candidates. They’re stuck with what they’re given.

The candidate will have to:
1.Watch a lot of entries, many of which will be awful (AMVH6 TRC has no shortage of these)
2.Pick out the best ones and
3.Order them appropriately to make the best possible compilation.

Essentially- they’re taking lemons and trying to make lemonade.
It’s a simplified simulation of what a judge will be expected to do.

if you think 6 is a challenge you havnt watched amv paradise

[SilentChaz]

Now there's a project I'm happy to see dead and buried.

[Sir Fluffykins]

Please have a no-subtitles or tv logo's rule. I beg you.

[pzykosiz]

I would have thought that would be obvious

[SilentChaz]

Elect SilentChaz as judge and I promise to lower taxes, strengthen our national defence and eliminate all subtitles and watermarks in AMVs by the year 2022!

A vote for the Silent party is a vote for a brighter tomorrow!

[thedarkmessenger]

Please have a no-subtitles or tv logo's rule. I beg you.

thirded (technically pzy and chaz are first and second respectively)

There you go, Ura. I made a pointless +1 post, just for you.

[Sir Fluffykins]

No god, no hope, only evolution, baby. Evolves or die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI

The song isn't my thing, but the visuals are what I like.

[urahara1001]

thirded (technically pzy and chaz are first and second respectively)

There you go, Ura. I made a pointless +1 post, just for you.

Daaawwwwww shucks, for me? You're too kind.

Anyway, if we want to have a qualifier for the judges, something for them to demonstrate their ability to judge clips and put them in a compilation, that's fine. Parliamentary proceedure generally provides an opportunity before voting for each candidate to announce their platform within a set parameter anyway, so we can use this in lieu of that. The specifics can be discussed and narrowed down while we have the floor open for nominations.

Speaking of, it looks like everyone is in favor of getting that going, so to keep things consistent we'll start that tonight as I posted previously and leave it open for one week. I don't think it will actually take that long, but that makes sure we've got it open with plenty of time to be considered fair, and that will allow time for further discussion on the logistics of the election.

[thedarkmessenger]

Anyway, if we want to have a qualifier for the judges, something for them to demonstrate their ability to judge clips and put them in a compilation, that's fine. Parliamentary proceedure generally provides an opportunity before voting for each candidate to announce their platform within a set parameter anyway, so we can use this in lieu of that. The specifics can be discussed and narrowed down while we have the floor open for nominations.

Just don't go with Chaz's qualifier. His is waaaaaaaay too unreasonably harsh. I mean, he's basically asking potential judges to do what actual judges would never be able to do themselves: make Hell 6 an actually good compilation using only the horrible clips that made it **** in the first place.

If you use such a literally impossible task for a qualifier, AMV Hell 8 will never happen. Chaz is trying to sabotage this whole thing before it even starts!

[LawRayLiet]

Something more to consider.
Zarx, as I see it served 3 major roles. All of which will need to be filled within the results of chosen judges or by other means for this to be successful.

1. Producer
Someone to take everything that's been judged and compile it into the final result. Inserting transitions, writing out credits, compressing and encoding video, uploading the final result and making the announcement.

2. Form of Submission Management
Creating a form of submission where in a dialogue can be had between all respective judges and the editors who submit content. This may include either setting up and hosting a personal website for such a purpose, or finding a free off-site alternative.

3. Judge
Judging the overall quality, humor and entertainment value of submissions. As well as giving tips for improvement.

I'd be interested to hear the nominees plans regarding these points. Which roles would they feel willing and competent to fill.

I'll +1 Chaz's mention of some form of actually testing a persons qualifications to judge. Otherwise it's just a popularity contest.

[urahara1001]

Just don't go with Chaz's qualifier. His is waaaaaaaay too unreasonably harsh. I mean, he's basically asking potential judges to do what actual judges would never be able to do themselves: make Hell 6 an actually good compilation using only the horrible clips that made it **** in the first place.

If you use such a literally impossible task for a qualifier, AMV Hell 8 will never happen. Chaz is trying to sabotage this whole thing before it even starts!

Well, that's not up to just me. We'll get that hammered out through group discussion.

A lot of the voting qualifications will come down to who is on the docket, but I think the threads from the Minis Challenges did give us a fairly good look at who here is capable as a judge. Still, something more recent and more focused on displaying that ability is a good idea. It will still come down to something of a popularity contest since it's a community vote, but the demonstration should help keep it focused on the popularity of their abilities.

[thedarkmessenger]

1. Producer
Someone to take everything that's been judged and compile it into the final result. Inserting transitions, writing out credits, compressing and encoding video, uploading the final result and making the announcement.
Probably pretty damn obvious, but whoever's the producer will need to have a pretty awesome computer. I'd nominate Arock, but I'm not sure if he really cares about Hell anymore. My computer is....well, it's better than some other people's, but I'm not sure it's fully up to the task. Plus, I'm not sure I myself am up to the task, either.

Which brings up another point: they'll also need to be willing to handle all that video editing. Someone with technical know-how would obviously fit into this category best. Those are the only two factors I can think of off the top of my head. Good computer, and technical know-how/willingness.

[Pafk]

I know I'm not a very active user in the conventional sense, I tend to read a lot without ever posting but I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. I too agree that a panel of judges is probably the right way to go, but I'd also be willing to help set up a communal judging platform that is fairly secure against manipulation and is completely unfazed by judges dropping out partway through the judging, but that also won't allow new or inactive members to control the outcome of the vote.

[thedarkmessenger]

Also, I feel I should add I also agree with some sort of "trial" so to speak for potential judges. Just nothing as impossibly harsh as Chaz's suggestion, although it shouldn't be ridiculously easy either.

[jinzo64]

I thought I'd have a go at doing Chaz's idea for selecting judges.
I'd forgot how bad some off the stuff in Hell 6 actually is.

I like Chazs Idea, maybe it could be a 3 min compilation video using clips from all the hells.
Or make a new clip only using footage from the winning videos from the mini challenges.

[urahara1001]

Well, we've already got a compilation of the winners of the minis challenges, and since those were already picked through the votes, that wouldn't demonstrate any ability to judge. We do, however, have the whole slew of entries that didn't make it in. The question is which is crueler; failed submissions for 6, or non-winning entries for the challenges?

[thedarkmessenger]

Or make a new clip only using footage from the winning videos from the mini challenges.
Making it ridiculously easy would defeat the purpose just as much as making it impossibly hard....

*edit* and like Ura said, it's already been done.

[Akyho]

Sorry Bill I believe more in De-Evolution.

They tell us that
We lost our tails, evolving up
From little snails
I say it's all, just wind in sails

Are we not men?
We are Devo
Are we not men?
D E V O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRguZr0xCOc

Also.......Pearl Jam are total Devotees of De-evolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qaAbx44jtg

However Bill what you say are the flaws of AMV Hell is very true and what alot the AMV Hell community has been wanting to try and weed out if not fix for a while now. So I think we are on parallel tracks of thinking Bill we are heading in the same direction but differently. Alot of people have mulled over "How can we do this better." for two years at least. Much what is being suggested and discussed here and what you object too is really just "what if" conversations now closer to a reality.

So alot of the forums have thought about this alot and even discussed this, which is why we are all sort of agreeing with each other and mostly Disagree with your suggestions. Basically your coming into the tail end of a two year long conversation.


Onto the point of judges and the points Law made, whoever is the producer flat out needs to be an excellent editor, as they already know how and more than likely has the passion/time to finish the project, this however may sacrifice them submitting clips. So in this aspect I would not suggest Real Inferno ( I know it feels like I talking about a ghost at this point.) as he was very active for AMV Hell 7 and may not have time for the full project. However Chaz is about onpar with editing skills and he only made 1 clip for Amv Hell 7 (well accepted clip, I would assume one made.) so we would not be losing a potential important editor to the project, despite his accolades in the minis.

I dont know if I am ever on the same page as Chaz for judging comedy, however he can judge technical quality better than anyone I would say.......by the fact we will even make a ****ing ANIMATED GIF ABOUT FLAWS IN VIDEOS THE CRAZY BASTARD!

......But we could do with a crazy bastard like that.......

I am tempted to put my name forward as a judge (hell I have been judging EVERY SINGLE CLIP of AMV Hell 6 rough cut and 6.66, while judging two thirds of AMV Hell 7 still I felt I was just being an annoying noise/could not be arsed.) so as a judge I have demonstrated my ideals and people can judge me on my judging, I also doubt I would make any clips for 8.

However if there is any sort of qualifying (which I do not have an argument against but neither for.) then I am automatically out of the running.

My main two solid strong nominations is Chaz as producer and Real Inferno as judge. Yet Real Inferno could be dead and buried for all we know so I should stop going on about him unless he shows up.

Otherwise I am not sure who else for Judges, Law,Urahara I feel comfortable with maybe Mad, Mil and I tempted by Haar because he does end up making some of my most favoured clips....but we all know I am just his white twin brother.

Main thing is.....who wants to would be the first order of business.

[Shuiia]

Main thing is.....who wants to would be the first order of business.

Thank you.

You know practically trying to figure out how we're gonna upload the next 5 installments is cool and all but let's just start small first shall we?

[jinzo64]

Ura, Dark you completely miss understood me.

My idea is to take all the winning videos from the challenges and using footage and audio from those clips to make an entirely new 30 second Clip.

The best way to do this would be to the already existing compilation for the footage.

A hypothetical way off wording this idea is to say that the compilation is a zoo and the videos are the animals and you have take bits from the animals in the zoo to make you're self an entirely new animal.

[urahara1001]

Okay, gotcha. Still, that really wouldn't do much to reflect on one's ability to judge, just their ability to make a clip from a whole bunch of random bits. I think Chaz has the right idea in having a set of already done clips that everyone has equal access to, and making the challenge to pick out the best of those clips and compile them into a presentation. That's really a closer proximity to what the job of being a judge will entail. From what I'm seeing, I think most people are on the same page with that, and at this point it's just a matter of deciding which collection of clips to use.

I suppose since this is really just a demo, it wouldn't even necessarily have to be just rejected clips. We could possibly open it up to any of the finished productions (or all of them), and make the challenge to then narrow it down further and pick say the 15 best out of that whole group (number chosen randomly pick what you like). In addition to judging and compilation, that would also demonstrate knowledge of past Hell projects.

[pzykosiz]

I'd forgot how bad some off the stuff in Hell 6 actually is.

that bad is it? i'll have to actually watch it i suppose


also, with regard to figuring out judges, would it also help they found some clips that aren't quite perfect,
and demonstrated their ability to help find flaws/find improvements?

or would that be a bit much?

[thedarkmessenger]

I suppose since this is really just a demo, it wouldn't even necessarily have to be just rejected clips. We could possibly open it up to any of the finished productions (or all of them), and make the challenge to then narrow it down further and pick say the 15 best out of that whole group (number chosen randomly pick what you like). In addition to judging and compilation, that would also demonstrate knowledge of past Hell projects.
This I feel is the best method mentioned so far.

[Guthix]

Ura, Dark you completely miss understood me.

My idea is to take all the winning videos from the challenges and using footage and audio from those clips to make an entirely new 30 second Clip.

The best way to do this would be to the already existing compilation for the footage.

A hypothetical way off wording this idea is to say that the compilation is a zoo and the videos are the animals and you have take bits from the animals in the zoo to make you're self an entirely new animal.

dont worry, i can read stupid

basicaly what jinzo is saying is the requirement for judges would be theyr ability to create the end credits amv, which zarx makes for each project.
instead of actual submissions the potencial judges uses mini challenge winners.

this kinda can kill two birds with one stone. the judge who makes the best credits sequence will be the top bannana and be in charge of compiling the final project + credits. the runner ups will be judges, who will process the submissions to give to the top judge.

mind you im still expecting this whole shindeg to crash and burn.

[SilentChaz]

Something more to consider.
1. Producer
2. Submission Management
3. Judge
I'd be interested to hear the nominees plans regarding these points. Which roles would they feel willing and competent to fill.
Now here’s something to think about. While we may be able to test candidates on Point 3, the other two are a different matter…

If I can talk about myself for a second- I feel arrogant enough to believe that I might do a half-decent job at judging submissions, but actually managing submissions and acting as producer for a large project? Frankly- it would be a daunting challenge for me.

Whilst I have put together compilations in the past, my experience is sorely lacking. I haven’t created anything longer than 10 minutes, or of notable quality- certainly not in terms of visual and audio clarity. My modest computing system(s) have been able to produce these things:

AMV Tennis compilation (part1) = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZytT-auCVM0
AMV Tennis compilation (part2) = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPPw99ZbCs
Remake: Remade = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWrWkKYivbg (although this is more of an editing job than a compilation)

But anything Harder, Better, Faster or Stronger… well, it’ll be a challenge.

Best idea I can come up with regarding accepting and managing submissions is to do it via private messaging, ideally through some sort of “judge account” separate from this one... Not much of an idea, I know.

I would most definitely need help.

[Shuiia]

I think anyone would need a little bit of help producing this Chaz.

[SilentChaz]

Well, I'm not above admitting it.

[urahara1001]

By the way, going from the time frame I announced prior, the floor is open for nominations now. I probably should have made a post last night, my apologies.

Since we all saw it coming, I'm going to get it out of the way and nominate Chaz.

[LawRayLiet]

I'll second that nomination.

[thedarkmessenger]

I'll...uh...I'll think about who I want to nominate while I'm at work today. Not sure who I trust to be a judge, honestly...

[jinzo64]

How many people can we nominate?

[urahara1001]

Oh, now that I think about it, since not everyone may be familiar with standard parliamentary proceedure:

To get on the docket, a candidate needs a nomination, a second, and the candidate's acceptance. Anyone can make a nomination or give a second, and there are no limits on the number of each that you can do. You can nominate yourself, but you cannot second yourself, even if someone else nominates you. In true technicality, you don't have to accept even if you nominate yourself, but let's disregard that bull**** because it's stupid. In a normal meeting setting, we'd hear one nomination at a time, wait for that one to either pass or fail, then move on. However, since this is a forum, we'll just leave things open for the duration. Again since it's a forum, let's also say that you can accept a nomination before you have a second, but you will still require the second to be eligible. I'll try to make semi-regular posts to keep a running list of who is on the docket as we go.

[itschickenscratch]

I'm not sure how to put this, I've barely been here 7 months and I don't necessarily have any biases on any of the forum members. I recognize that I have a good bit of improvement in my own editing, but I know good clips when I see them, and I know what to look for in said clips. It won't hurt me if you guys disagree, but I am totally up for nominating myself as a judge.

[humnut]

I'll nominate Law.

[Akyho]

I second law, I third/fourth? Chaz, I nominate Inferno (...I know.....I know....Zeds dead...)

[Shuiia]

I'd like to nominate myself and give my support to Law and Chaz.

[SilentChaz]

Since we all saw it coming, I'm going to get it out of the way and nominate Chaz.Hell, I didn't see that coming.

I'll second that nomination.I sure as hell didn’t see that coming either.

Alright, if we’re playing parliament- then I’ll accept my nominations.

For position of judge on future AMV Hell projects- I nominate Lawrayliet; TheRealInferno and milleniummaster18.

[pzykosiz]

I'll put support behind Law and Chaz, and I'll second Shuiia

[adzman]

Is no one going to nominate me?

Fine, I'll do it myself. And I'll nominate Haar while I'm at it.

[thedarkmessenger]

I think I'll support Law as judge, as well as Inferno if he shows back up and accepts.

Any nominations I'll have to think about some more.

[milleniummaster18]

I second Law, Adzman, Inferno, and Haar.

[Kaiju]

I third Law, Adzman, Inferno and Haar as well. I might even nominate Loli whilst I am at it.

[jinzo64]

I support Haar and Chaz.

[Guthix]

in the end it went down as a popularity contest...
guess ill throw in a double edged sword
nominate mad and jinzo

[Akyho]

in the end it went down as a popularity contest...
guess ill throw in a double edged sword
nominate mad and jinzo

There is logic to your spanner throwing. Much like how we work we have the ID the Ego and the Super-ego.
"The id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual trends; the super-ego plays the critical and moralizing role; and the ego is the organized, realistic part that mediates between the desires of the id and the super-ego."

However I don't know.

While I have not nominated myself I am up for someone nominating me, I would rather have more than one or so peoples backing of me than doing half the work by nominating myself., if not then cool less pressure for me WOOOT!

As it stands I also back Haar.

[Kaiju]

Hrm... How about we nominate at least one 'non-editor' for a Judge? As we have many people here who like and watch AMV Hell, but don't have the necessary skills to properly make one or something along those lines. To represent the "fukin casul" every-fan to gauge what the audience at large would find funny. Its nice to be slightly elitist, but we need someone on the judging panel to represent the bulk of the audience. Even if they judge the clip on things like length, is the joke funny, does the clip drag on, etc. So we can cover a wide area of opinions on how a clip should be.

[Akyho]

Hrm... How about we nominate at least one 'non-editor' for a Judge? As we have many people here who like and watch AMV Hell, but don't have the necessary skills to properly make one or something along those lines. To represent the "fukin casul" every-fan to gauge what the audience at large would find funny. Its nice to be slightly elitist, but we need someone on the judging panel to represent the bulk of the audience. Even if they judge the clip on things like length, is the joke funny, does the clip drag on, etc. So we can cover a wide area of opinions on how a clip should be.

Yeah thats a better way of saying what I was saying. I am not exactly for the idea....I am however FOR experimenting on that idea. Maybe 3 official editor judges and 1 experimental non editor judge? I am not comfortable doing this seriously, however I do want to experiment and find out if we get some good results out of it.

Oh I was too busy trying to make a point, I forgot to include this when talking about ID.

"With legs like mine! I am realy made for dancing!" R.I.P Rest home Rik Mayall.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZkLGZL11rA

[urahara1001]

Hrm... How about we nominate at least one 'non-editor' for a Judge? As we have many people here who like and watch AMV Hell, but don't have the necessary skills to properly make one or something along those lines. To represent the "fukin casul" every-fan to gauge what the audience at large would find funny. Its nice to be slightly elitist, but we need someone on the judging panel to represent the bulk of the audience. Even if they judge the clip on things like length, is the joke funny, does the clip drag on, etc. So we can cover a wide area of opinions on how a clip should be.

You can nominate anyone that's a member, editor or non-editor. It's still going to come down to a vote, and I believe most people are pushing for some sort of compilation contest as a display of one's ability to judge. You can make the case for leniency on this for someone who isn't an editor, but again is going to be a community decision to make (also anyone with Window's My First Movie Maker can at least cut and paste already made clips end-to-end, so while they may not be able to do nice transitions, it wouldn't necessarily exclude them).

[urahara1001]

Separate post to summarize what we have so far:

On the docket (nominated, seconded, and accepted)

SilentChaz

Nominated and Seconded, awaiting acceptance

TheRealInferno
Shuiia
Haar
LawRayLiet

Nominated

jinzo64
itschickenscratch
milleniummaster18
adzman
SuperLoliSentai
Madevil

[LawRayLiet]

Thanks for the support. I accept the nomination.

[Shuiia]

Ok then, I'll accept my second and I'll second adz, loli, mad and itschickenscratch for good measure.

[Akyho]

Ok then, I'll accept my second and I'll second adz, loli, mad and itschickenscratch for good measure.

Oh wait I also back Loli too. So many names thrown around.

[Guthix]

There is logic to your spanner throwing. Much like how we work we have the ID the Ego and the Super-ego.
"The id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual trends; the super-ego plays the critical and moralizing role; and the ego is the organized, realistic part that mediates between the desires of the id and the super-ego."

However I don't know.

While I have not nominated myself I am up for someone nominating me, I would rather have more than one or so peoples backing of me than doing half the work by nominating myself., if not then cool less pressure for me WOOOT!

As it stands I also back Haar.

you know all this ego talk is sheer and utter bull****.
zarx is a ****ing nun compared to you drama queens.
you dont need no ****ing ego, just abit of skill, abit of taste and abit of free time.

[itschickenscratch]

I accept my second and I'll back Haar, Chaz, and Mad.

[thedarkmessenger]

I like the idea of having a judge representing "the fanbase" *cough*youtubekiddies*cough* and I think this project needs some amount of positivity....


....so I second Jinzo :D

[Haar]

I guess I accept my nomination.


Hrm... How about we nominate at least one 'non-editor' for a Judge?

Sure, I'll nominate you. I will also nominate Akyho. Furthermore, I will back milleniummaster18, LawRayLiet, Adzman, itschickenscratch, and Jinzo.

[Bonkondahed]

I back itschickenscratch because nepotism!

[Kaiju]

I accept Haar's nomination.

[thedarkmessenger]

I'll second Kaiju as well, actually

[itschickenscratch]

Same to backing Kaiju.

[MADEVIL]

Well I guess I've been thrown into the mix, I'm not opposed to doing judging if I'm wanted/needed. I've done it before in the past for AMV Hell and other projects.

[urahara1001]

Okay, so next round of summary (let me know if I missed anything):

On the docket (nominated, seconded, and accepted)

SilentChaz
LawRayLiet
Shuiia
itschickenscratch
Haar
Kaiju
MADEVIL

Nominated and Seconded, awaiting acceptance

TheRealInferno
SuperLoliSentai
milleniummaster18
adzman
jinzo64

Nominated

Akyho

Just an FYI, I've got a convention this weekend, so I won't be online as much as usual. I should still be home and on in the evenings, so I'll plan to update the summary then. If things keep the current pace, I don't think it'll need more than that anyway.

[Shuiia]

I'm gonna back Akyho and Kaiju

[jinzo64]

I Accept my nomination.

[Akyho]

you know all this ego talk is sheer and utter bull****.
zarx is a ****ing nun compared to you drama queens.
you dont need no ****ing ego, just abit of skill, abit of taste and abit of free time.

Oh wait no you misunderstand, I was talking about ID, Ego and Super Ego in psychological terms how all three parts have different aims and this allows for a final solution to be found due to the different viewpoints, not that they are all the same viewpoints.

I wasnt talking about Ego as in YOU NEED AN "EGO".

If you are not following what I mean, I will talk anime, ID, Ego and Super-Ego is the Magi System in Evangelion. Casper, Balthasar and Melchoir were the three aspects of Ritsuko Akagai's mother who had each part reflect her, one as a mother, one as a woman, and one as a scientist. Each had different aims and viewpoints and would argue with each other till a logical solution was made.....which was usually the right one.

Basically ignore the word EGO, I was not making a point about that at all.


Also I reject my nomination........................................ ...wait.......what's the opposite of reject?......Accept....I accept my nomination and seconding.

At this rate Bil Ein will have his wish and everyone's going to almost be a judge lols.

[Bill Ein]

Bil Ein will have his wish
At last you and other begin to vote for En.Comix? :)

If seriously I think you can try to start with 9-12 "Knights of the Round Table" and after half of the year you must decide: need more judges or need kick unnecessary judges.

[Guthix]

Oh wait no you misunderstand, I was talking about ID, Ego and Super Ego in psychological terms how all three parts have different aims and this allows for a final solution to be found due to the different viewpoints, not that they are all the same viewpoints.

I wasnt talking about Ego as in YOU NEED AN "EGO".

If you are not following what I mean, I will talk anime, ID, Ego and Super-Ego is the Magi System in Evangelion. Casper, Balthasar and Melchoir were the three aspects of Ritsuko Akagai's mother who had each part reflect her, one as a mother, one as a woman, and one as a scientist. Each had different aims and viewpoints and would argue with each other till a logical solution was made.....which was usually the right one.

Basically ignore the word EGO, I was not making a point about that at all.


Also I reject my nomination........................................ ...wait.......what's the opposite of reject?......Accept....I accept my nomination and seconding.

At this rate Bil Ein will have his wish and everyone's going to almost be a judge lols.

lost interest after the word evangelion

[urahara1001]

At this rate Bil Ein will have his wish and everyone's going to almost be a judge lols.

Just because you're on the docket doesn't mean you're a judge; it means your name is in the running for the election. We can have 50 names on the docket, but that doesn't mean all of them will be elected.

[Akyho]

Just because you're on the docket doesn't mean you're a judge; it means your name is in the running for the election. We can have 50 names on the docket, but that doesn't mean all of them will be elected.

I said "everyone's going to almost be a judge "....

[adzman]

I have to accept when I nominated myself? Okay I accept then...

[thedarkmessenger]

I have to accept when I nominated myself? Okay I accept then...

I have to admit, Ura, I find this a bit ridicolous myself.

I mean....isn't acceptance of the nomination more or less implied if the one nominating you is you?

[pzykosiz]

i'm pretty sure ura explained that in the original post.

you know, parliamentary technicalities and ****.

seriously, **** politics

[milleniummaster18]

I accept my nomination.

[SuperLoliSentai]

Nominated and Seconded, awaiting acceptance

SuperLoliSentai

Wait, what? Not that I think I would get any votes, but I still respectively decline my nomination.

[Guthix]

>no one nominates ura
lulz

[urahara1001]

I have to admit, Ura, I find this a bit ridicolous myself.

I mean....isn't acceptance of the nomination more or less implied if the one nominating you is you?

Like psy said, it's stupid in our context, which is why I said originally to just disregard it. In certain parliament settings there would be subtle reasons for it, such as if there was a limited time for hearing nominations that you wanted to waste in order to block soneone else from getting in and dumb little underhanded **** like that. Doesn't apply logically here.


>no one nominates ura
lulz

I did notice that, but I'm not complaining. As I've said, I have no real authority here, just logic, organization, the initiative to try and motivate people, which all pretty much derrives from leadership experience in scouts. These traits don't necessarily make me good judge material. I'm a mediocre editor at best, and while I feel I have a decent grasp of the elements needed for good comedy, I'm probably not the best at telling people how to exercise them, especially from a technical standpoint. I'm more than willing to stay out of the judge's circle and provide effort better suited to my abilities if we chose to designate a position for that.

I've also had the option to nominate myself, which I have consciously not done. This is going to be a communal effort, not just something I organize. Since I took the initiative to start this thread and get some serious organization done, I felt it would be an abuse of power (that I really don't have in the first place) to push for myself in a managerial position. If I were nominated and seconded by someone else, I would accept because at that point it's community backing and not my own prompting, and I am willing to serve if people want me to.

Bottom line, I'm intentionally not making moves that would put me in charge unless others want me there. This is to be a community run ordeal, and I want to see it stay that way.

[Akyho]

Like psy said, it's stupid in our context, which is why I said originally to just disregard it. In certain parliament settings there would be subtle reasons for it, such as if there was a limited time for hearing nominations that you wanted to waste in order to block soneone else from getting in and dumb little underhanded **** like that. Doesn't apply logically here.



I did notice that, but I'm not complaining. As I've said, I have no real authority here, just logic, organization, the initiative to try and motivate people, which all pretty much derrives from leadership experience in scouts. These traits don't necessarily make me good judge material. I'm a mediocre editor at best, and while I feel I have a decent grasp of the elements needed for good comedy, I'm probably not the best at telling people how to exercise them, especially from a technical standpoint. I'm more than willing to stay out of the judge's circle and provide effort better suited to my abilities if we chose to designate a position for that.

I've also had the option to nominate myself, which I have consciously not done. This is going to be a communal effort, not just something I organize. Since I took the initiative to start this thread and get some serious organization done, I felt it would be an abuse of power (that I really don't have in the first place) to push for myself in a managerial position. If I were nominated and seconded by someone else, I would accept because at that point it's community backing and not my own prompting, and I am willing to serve if people want me to.

Bottom line, I'm intentionally not making moves that would put me in charge unless others want me there. This is to be a community run ordeal, and I want to see it stay that way.

I have not considered you as you tend to already have many fingers in pies (real life stuff/job/making table top games/wife/weddings/what ever have you.) and may end up with more things on your hands and judging AMV Hell with the list of stuff you may already have certainly comes at the bottom of the pile. At Least for any sane person.

It cannot be ignored that your just a big boot up everyones ass and that can end up being more important.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140101144745/simpsons/images/thumb/1/10/Bart_vs._Australia_Top_Episode.jpg/500px-Bart_vs._Australia_Top_Episode.jpg

[SilentChaz]

I’ll save you a little hassle, Ura. Summary update:

On the docket (nominated, seconded, and accepted)
SilentChaz
LawRayLiet
Shuiia
itschickenscratch
Haar
Kaiju
MADEVIL
Jinzo64
Akyho
adzman
milleniummaster18


Nominated and Seconded, awaiting acceptance
TheRealInferno


Nominated
---


Declined
SuperLoliSentai

We have a decent mix of candidates in the docket so far.

Any thoughts on how to cut down the numbers when nominations are through?
Would the docket-members be happy to have their judging abilities evaluated by the community through some sort of test?

Needless to say- I would be willing to undertake the test I suggested earlier ( http://www.amvhell.com/showthread.php?29117-AMV-Hell-8-Let-s-make-it-happen&p=557780#post557780), myself.


I think you can try to start with 9-12 "Knights of the Round Table"
There is an old saying- “Too many cooks spoil the broth”.
And an old lyric- “Three is the magic number”.

[LawRayLiet]

We haven't really discussed very much on the number of judges to start. I personally would prefer 4 or 5.
Reason being is that with 3 I imagine the case occurring to often of, one person likes it, one person doesn't, then all the power is given to the opinion of the person who weighs in last.
Sure the same thing could happen with more judges, but I don't imagine it occurring quite as often.
Also, looking at the current docket, there's a lot of good candidates and I can't imagine being satisfied with any combination of just 3, I'd still feel someone is missing.
3 could possibly be sufficient, but those are just my thoughts.

What's everyone else thoughts on this?

[pzykosiz]

That seems like a good way to handle it, 5 judges should reduce the amount of tiebreaker votes needed.
with 4, there's a pretty good chance of ties, and subsequent arguments.

[SilentChaz]

3 or 5 heads is the best way to go.
4 could work- however there would have to be a head-honcho of sorts (a Simon Cowell of the group) whose dis/approval ultimately decides tie-breakers.

[Akyho]

I sort of fear with 3 judges there might be a like minded situation going on, while 5 will allow a certain amount of chaos which could provide interesting results, what I would suggest and it is a radical thought but what has been mostly suggested before. We do the normal voting and such for four candidates then as the fifth a sort of wild card, someone the most different and maybe even the least friendly with the other judges.

so maybe one of the rejected candidates will be offered the wild card position? This is purely theoretical and experimental thought going on right now.

[thedarkmessenger]

I sort of fear with 3 judges there might be a like minded situation going on, while 5 will allow a certain amount of chaos which could provide interesting results, what I would suggest and it is a radical thought but what has been mostly suggested before. We do the normal voting and such for four candidates then as the fifth a sort of wild card, someone the most different and maybe even the least friendly with the other judges.

so maybe one of the rejected candidates will be offered the wild card position? This is purely theoretical and experimental thought going on right now.

......


so the wild card would be Jinzo?

[Shuiia]

I say 5 would be best. This way you have a decent number of judges and it won't quickly devolve into one side vs another side.

[urahara1001]

So far we've got 11 people on the docket. Five judges would knock it down by about half. That's a fairly good selection balance, even if we add a few more people. Also, I think we should just stick with a traditional vote, in order to keep things fair and balance. I would still plan to allow people to vote for up to three people, and then we pick from the top five. Having three votes means people could spread their selection out, so they could include more of a variety in their voting qualifications. That of course is also open for discussion still, but I thought it beared repeating here.

[Akyho]

......


so the wild card would be Jinzo?

Basically yes.........


So far we've got 11 people on the docket. Five judges would knock it down by about half. That's a fairly good selection balance, even if we add a few more people. Also, I think we should just stick with a traditional vote, in order to keep things fair and balance. I would still plan to allow people to vote for up to three people, and then we pick from the top five. Having three votes means people could spread their selection out, so they could include more of a variety in their voting qualifications. That of course is also open for discussion still, but I thought it beared repeating here.

Each person voting for three people is good and keeps it simple and spread out.

[jinzo64]

I agree that 5 Judges would be the best solution and being able to vote for three people is also a good idea.


Out of interest I have to ask.
Why am I considered the Wild Card?

[Haar]

Why am I considered the Wild Card?

Your opinions are a bit different than ours on a lot of things. Some of us could absolutely despise something, but you'd present some reasoning as to why it's maybe not so bad, which could lead to us reconsidering.

[thedarkmessenger]

Out of interest I have to ask.
Why am I considered the Wild Card?
Same reason I seconded you: Positivity!

[milleniummaster18]

It's more along the lines of him being an accurate representative of the lowest common denominator.

[thedarkmessenger]

It's more along the lines of him being an accurate representative of the lowest common denominator.

which is largely because of his positivity!

either that or it's the CAUSE of his positivity....

[Kaiju]

......


so the wild card would be Jinzo?

I thought the wild card would be me, being the non-editor xD

[Haar]

You're just as mentally broken and psychologically battered as the rest of us that aren't Jinzo.

[thedarkmessenger]

I thought the wild card would be me, being the non-editor xD

that would make you second-in-line :D

[The Real Inferno]

I see Akyho has been sucking my dick real hard :D

[The Real Inferno]

Anyway, I'll accept. But to be blunt, the best team you can come up with with what you got if there are three judges is Chaz, me, and Haar. If you had 5, your best balance is Chaz, me, Haar, Kaiju and Millennium. That will get you the most diverse ray of tastes and opinions while still keeping people who understand what humor and quality is in clips. Adzman would be interchangable in there.

[jinzo64]

It's more along the lines of him being an accurate representative of the lowest common denominator.

By the power of positivity I recent this comment.

I am not an accurate representation of the lowest common denominator.

[Akyho]

I see Akyho has been sucking my dick real hard :D

Considering majority of my points to be made about how this process is to go has been stolen from your long noted talks on this very subject, I had to at least mentioned my source.

[Thetruecrow]

Forgot this was a thing.

[SilentChaz]

On the docket (nominated, seconded, and accepted)
SilentChaz
LawRayLiet
Shuiia
itschickenscratch
Haar
Kaiju
MADEVIL
Jinzo64
Akyho
adzman
milleniummaster18
The Real Inferno


Nominated, but declined
SuperLoliSentai

It would appear that we’ve got as many people discussing this topic now as we are ever likely to (for the immediate future, anyway) and most of the “discussers” just so happen to be part of our little docket.

So, do any of these twelve candidates feel up to the task of actually producing a new AMV Hell? As Law brought up earlier:


Zarx, as I see it served 3 major roles. All of which will need to be filled within the results of chosen judges or by other means for this to be successful.

1. Producer
Someone to take everything that's been judged and compile it into the final result. Inserting transitions, writing out credits, compressing and encoding video, uploading the final result and making the announcement.

2. Form of Submission Management
Creating a form of submission where in a dialogue can be had between all respective judges and the editors who submit content. This may include either setting up and hosting a personal website for such a purpose, or finding a free off-site alternative.

3. Judge

I highly doubt we’re likely to find someone willing to produce an AMV Hell video who isn’t interested enough to be part of the judging aspect of things or even post in this thread to discuss the matter.
Our docket is all we have.

Our current objective is to appoint a judge/ team of judges for a future project(s), so let’s not jump too far ahead of ourselves; it just wouldn’t hurt to hear how each of our twelve candidates feel about the above points, it might even save a little time.

[urahara1001]

I believe there are more jobs than just these that would be required, such as organizing promotions (announcement videos, trailers, setting up convention showings [assuming that's something we still want to do], plus managing and organizing the decision making process of the community). Granted, several of these and the above jobs can and probably will be assumed by some or all of the judges, but this does leave room for people who are not judges to contribute in a more direct way than just making videos (which of course we'll need most of all).

These are all talking points that can be discussed by the judges to make the case for their campaign. Going off of the prior announced time frame, nominations will officially close tomorrow night, so there is technically still time for someone else to get on the docket. That said, I believe it's safe to say that this is all we're reasonably going to get. We've had some discussion so far on the format of the campaigning platform we want to use, but I would like to see us get something more concrete decided on.

Based on the discussion I've seen so far, I would propose this: We give each judge the opportunity to make an official statement for their campaign; where they stand on the issues discussed so far, discussion of their qualifications, list of their prior achievements, so on and so forth. In a standard speaking setting, this would be kept even by imposing a time limit. Since we're in a forum, I'd say to instead put a maximum word count... say 150 words? In addition, I believe we're mostly in agreeance that there should be some form of test for the candidates to judge and compile what they feel are the best clips from a certain collective. At this point, I'm thinking we should just make it a set number of clips, say the top 10 for it's commonality, and that we should open it up to the whole of all official AMV Hell videos (Hells 1 through 8, the Minis, and the Minis Challenges. I would say to leave the 0 styles out to keep the content consistent and viewable through multiple outlets). There are several reasons I'm thinking this:
1) It provides a huge sample set so that we're not likely to have candidates pick too many videos similarly and make the choice less distinguishable.
2) Picking the best from the entirety of AMV Hell will show how well the candidates know the history, which will be necessary for keeping thing from being redundant with prior work.
3) Having to think back over that much content will require effort, and willingness to put in effort will be a definite requirement of the job.
4) Most of the other samplings would have their difficulty in picking the best from the worst. I believe it's that kind of thinking that will cause the quality of our finished products to go down. We want to put together the best of the best, and choosing that is what the challenge should be.

Even our non-editor candidates should be capable of this. Having the entirety of AMV Hell open means it shouldn't be hard to obtain the source videos, and the judgement here won't be on transitions or video quality, just the videos you pick. Hell, you could rip the things from Youtube if torrenting is too much work and splice them from there. Of course, the effort you put in for the demo will reflect your potential effort for taking the job, so choose wisely there.

Anyway, thoughts on this? Since voting closes tomorrow night, we should probably try to get the decision on the judging parameters finalized by Friday so that we can give the candidates time to work on their campaigning.

[Guthix]

nominate ura, fluffy, backmark, npcc and ssg

[Shuiia]

Based on the discussion I've seen so far, I would propose this: We give each judge the opportunity to make an official statement for their campaign; where they stand on the issues discussed so far, discussion of their qualifications, list of their prior achievements, so on and so forth. In a standard speaking setting, this would be kept even by imposing a time limit. Since we're in a forum, I'd say to instead put a maximum word count... say 150 words? In addition, I believe we're mostly in agreeance that there should be some form of test for the candidates to judge and compile what they feel are the best clips from a certain collective. At this point, I'm thinking we should just make it a set number of clips, say the top 10 for it's commonality, and that we should open it up to the whole of all official AMV Hell videos (Hells 1 through 8, the Minis, and the Minis Challenges. I would say to leave the 0 styles out to keep the content consistent and viewable through multiple outlets). There are several reasons I'm thinking this:
1) It provides a huge sample set so that we're not likely to have candidates pick too many videos similarly and make the choice less distinguishable.
2) Picking the best from the entirety of AMV Hell will show how well the candidates know the history, which will be necessary for keeping thing from being redundant with prior work.
3) Having to think back over that much content will require effort, and willingness to put in effort will be a definite requirement of the job.
4) Most of the other samplings would have their difficulty in picking the best from the worst. I believe it's that kind of thinking that will cause the quality of our finished products to go down. We want to put together the best of the best, and choosing that is what the challenge should be.


I second this.

[thedarkmessenger]

I second this.

I second Shui's seconding.

....so I'm thirding it...

[jinzo64]

Looking at these points, I am capable of most of them then there are the ones I don't how to do.
1. Producer
Someone to take everything that's been judged and compile it into the final result. Inserting transitions, writing out credits, compressing and encoding video, uploading the final result and making the announcement.
Even if I don't get to be a judge this part of the project I would like to do, But I would need someone to compress and encode the final result.

2. Form of Submission Management
Creating a form of submission where in a dialogue can be had between all respective judges and the editors who submit content. This may include either setting up and hosting a personal website for such a purpose, or finding a free off-site alternative.
I do not know how to make or host a website so I'd have to try and do the free off site alternative.

3. Judge
I'd want to give Helpful, inspiring and constructive criticism of every ones entries.

[thedarkmessenger]

But I would need someone to compress and encode the final result.

If Jinzo somehow ends up as our producer, I'm willing to help with this part. My computer isn't the best in the world, but it's still well above average. Should be able to handle the project just fine. I can probably run a long "test render" if I need to.

[SilentChaz]

1. We give each [candidate] the opportunity to make an official statement for their “campaign”. Maximum word count 150 words?

2. Test- Top 10. Open it up to the whole of all official AMV Hell videos (Hells 1 through 8, the Minis, and the Minis Challenges. I would say to leave the 0 styles out to keep the content consistent and viewable through multiple outlets).

3. It provides a huge sample set so that we're not likely to have candidates pick too many videos similarly and make the choice less distinguishable.

4. We want to put together the best of the best, and choosing that is what the challenge should be.
1. Sounds nice and official.

2. A top 10 compilation? Sounds fine. Leave out material from the 0 projects? Heh. Very well.
Might be worth leaving out material from the challenge rounds too, or at the very least- banning the use of “winning” entries.

3. Running the risk of having candidates pick similar videos is not a bad thing.
If two candidates do happen to submit more or less identical top-10s- then what would that tell us about them?: They have similar tastes, and it would be wise to consider selecting only one of them (not both) for a position on the judging panel.

4. That’s fine, although I’m sure none of us will find it hard to imagine that “the best” is not what a judge will have to be dealing with (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI5hrsIrDC8) most of the time.
Making the best of what you’re given is an important skill, and for that reason I would still push for my earlier idea of using material only from AMVH6-TRC… then again, maybe this would be a better test for the producer’s role?

It would be worth considering submitting our top-10s anonymously to help combat personality biases when things are put to the vote.
Of course- this would require a trustworthy intermediary to receive each candidate’s compilation and to share links to the community…

[urahara1001]

I'm sure at least several people will remember me talking about the specs on my gaming rig, and I have no problem making that an option too. I won't bore everyone with it again, but I could probably render this **** in 1080p and still have memory to spare.



It would be worth considering submitting our top-10s anonymously to help combat personality biases when things are put to the vote.
Of course- this would require a trustworthy intermediary to receive each candidate’s compilation and to share links to the community…

Assuming I'm not on the docket by the end of the day, I have no problem filling that role. I started out as organizer on this, and I'm willing to see that role through.

[jinzo64]

Thank you Dark.


I've got experience in the producing area
My experience comes in the form of the Amvhell 6 spoof, Amvhell school minis and amv hell school minis revised edition.
Mad did the compressing and encoding for the school ones.

[Kaiju]

I second this.

As do I.
What we could also do is compose a list of ten AMV ideas we all have and thus are judged on the quality of the ideas and see how well they stand up against each other. As while I have seen all of the Hells so far... a lot of going back and rewatching seems to be in order to properly compose a list of favorite clips from all of Hell. I don't mind doing it, but for some people, that might be a lot of time invested for some other people.

Also, how would the non-editors compose a compilation?

[thedarkmessenger]

What we could also do is compose a list of ten AMV ideas we all have and thus are judged on the quality of the ideas and see how well they stand up against each other. As while I have seen all of the Hells so far... a lot of going back and rewatching seems to be in order to properly compose a list of favorite clips from all of Hell. I don't mind doing it, but for some people, that might be a lot of time invested for some other people.
This feels more like a test for editors than for judges, IMO.

We already have a test for that, too. It's called "your clip is **** so we're not gonna use it" :D

[urahara1001]

This feels more like a test for editors than for judges, IMO.

We already have a test for that, too. It's called "your clip is **** so we're not gonna use it" :D

I'm of the same mind on that one. Making your own clip and judging other clips are different skill sets.



Also, how would the non-editors compose a compilation?

Anyone can pick up a free video editing program just for the purposes of cutting out clips and putting them together. The transitions don't need to match up, and hell, it can even be one of those programs that puts a watermark on the output video. The end quality is not super important in this case; what we'll really want to focus on the ability to judge clips.

[LawRayLiet]

The whole test thingy in the current format being mentioned is seeming kinda redundant to me, but I'm fine with doing whatever.

On the points I mentioned, I'll say this.
There's likely a lot of us that have a good enough PC to produce, but there's more to it then simply dropping everything in and rendering. Animating and placing transitions, making a credit roll of sorts, randomizing and then ordering submissions appropriately, compressing the result and understanding the balance between quality and filesize. Also possessing an eye for detail so no mistakes are made during these processes and nothing gets accidentally left out. The person needs to already be a competent editor. It would preferably be one of the judges since this person will obviously need access to the submissions. This will be the job with the highest responsibility and also require the most time and work to make a high quality final result. I know from experience how much work it can take to produce and also deal with all the hiccups along the way you might not expect to get, but do. Which is why I'll volunteer for it when it's brought up, but would also be fine with someone else handling it.

On the matter of submissions management, I'd like to set up a dedicated submissions forum site. Organizing it similar to what we have here, assigning Judges with special accounts to fully access and comment within the submissions forum. I think this would be the best solution.

[itschickenscratch]

The whole test thingy in the current format being mentioned is seeming kinda redundant to me, but I'm fine with doing whatever.

On the points I mentioned, I'll say this.
There's likely a lot of us that have a good enough PC to produce, but there's more to it then simply dropping everything in and rendering. Animating and placing transitions, making a credit roll of sorts, randomizing and then ordering submissions appropriately, compressing the result and understanding the balance between quality and filesize. Also possessing an eye for detail so no mistakes are made during these processes and nothing gets accidentally left out. The person needs to already be a competent editor. It would preferably be one of the judges since this person will obviously need access to the submissions. This will be the job with the highest responsibility and also require the most time and work to make a high quality final result. I know from experience how much work it can take to produce and also deal with all the hiccups along the way you might not expect to get, but do. Which is why I'll volunteer for it when it's brought up, but would also be fine with someone else handling it.

On the matter of submissions management, I'd like to set up a dedicated submissions forum site. Organizing it similar to what we have here, assigning Judges with special accounts to fully access and comment within the submissions forum. I think this would be the best solution.

I with basically everything here, especially the producer being part of the judges, due to easier video submission availability. If I do end up on the judging committee, I am totally willing to produce in place of Law, since he did say that he wouldn't mind if someone else handled the whole thing.

[Akyho]

I have just come in from doing 13 hours of my college course (waitering) and I have my cat licking my bare naked chest......**** ALL makes sense to me right now. I read something about make an impassioned speech.

All I have to say is.
1: I will be just a judge
2: Everyone knows I pick at every bit of AMV Hells since 6.
3: My cat actually ****ing sneezed on my chest......and still continues to lick it...WHAT THE **** CAT? I didn't spill any food over me and she has never done this before.
4: I have the sort of plan to hopefully prod AMV Hell 8 into the sort of areas that made 3 and 4 better, the dark comedy stuff yet also try and keep it with in convention rules unless folks decided otherwise to say yes or no to rules.
5: Screw the rules I have a cat finally stop licking my chest.
6: I am either voted as a judge or not, if there is any other task to be asked to be eligible to judge I am not doing it and of course will not be part of the official candidacy.
7: Basicly everyone will know if they were going to vote for me or not, I feel with (almost) any combination of judges from the current docket is going to be good.

[thedarkmessenger]

I am in full support of Law being a producer.

chickenscratch......not so much. In all fairness, chicken, you've barely been here 6 months. Not really enough time for me to trust you one way or the other.

[urahara1001]

A little less than two hours until nominations close. If anyone has any surprises left, now is the time.

[thedarkmessenger]

A little less than two hours until nominations close. If anyone has any surprises left, now is the time.

I got nothing....

SURPRISE!!!

[SilentChaz]

I am in full support of Law being a producer.
Second. I say we allow Law to skip the testing phase; the chap has the loyalty* and ability enough already to have earned a judging position for this project.
The way I see it: No Law, no AMV Hell.

The age of Law begins soon.

*Loyalty as in s/he's been a part of AMV Hell for a long time.


I could probably render this **** in 1080p and still have memory to spare.
Good, then we have a back-up.

I am totally willing to produce
Good, then we have a back-up for our back-up.



My cat actually ****ing sneezed on my chest...... I didn't spill any food over me
Been sprinkling pepper over yourself? You kinky son of a bitch.

[jinzo64]

I want to be mature about the situation, But as we all know maturity isn't one of my strong points.
But being a childish,immature fool is the cornerstone of my existence.

It's very clear law is the first choice for producer of amv hell 8

and ura is a strong back up

and scratch is a back up to our back up

Looking at this list,It's seems that my willingness to produce amv 8 has been overlooked(possibly ignored),Which makes sense since I already stated that I'd need someone else to compress and encode the finished product as I don't know how to do those things.

[urahara1001]

Since I was feeling a bit ill last night and went to bed early, I didn't have a chance until now for an official close out post for the nominations. Nothing changed in the time frame (wasn't expecting it to really), so here is our final list of candidates:

On the docket (nominated, seconded, and accepted)
SilentChaz
LawRayLiet
Shuiia
itschickenscratch
Haar
Kaiju
MADEVIL
Jinzo64
Akyho
adzman
milleniummaster18
The Real Inferno

Regardless of how judge elections go, I'm cool with appointing Law as producer, and that seems to be fairly widely felt. Personally, I'm also pretty sure Law is going to get a judge spot, so I don't have any concerns about any cross over there.

It also looks like most people are in favor of the top 10 of all AMV Hell judgement, so unless there are any opposing remarks, I think we should go with that. Chaz, I did notice your comment about excluding the challenge winners, and while I think your reasoning is sound, I personally wouldn't go so far as to disallow them. When we're considering ALL of hell, I'm not so sure they should get a top 10 spot, but if someone else thinks they should, I would want to be aware of that opinion. That is up for discussion of course, just putting my personal take on it out there.

I still think we should try to get the campaigning parameters set by this Friday, the 22nd. We'll want to finalize any specifics and allow for any alternate opinions on the clip judging compilation, and set a date for when that and the campaigning speech should be done by. Given the sheer number of clips to watch and that the compilation contest is still happening, I would say three weeks is reasonable, though I could see people pushing for two. Again, up for discussion.

Also, I've thought more on the idea of keeping the compilations secret, and I don't think that's going to be necessary. We're going to know who is on the docket, who we're voting for, and what their stance is, so logically I think we should know what their judging is like before we vote for them.

And with the nominations done, hopefully that's the last text wall I'll have to put up for a bit.

[SilentChaz]

Does anybody object to Lawrayliet assuming the role of producer and one of the judges? Now’s the time to speak up.

AMV Hell
AMV Hell 2
AMV Hell 3
AMV Hell 4
AMV Hell 5
AMV Hell 6.66
AMV Hell 7
AMV Hell CE
Minis season 1
Minis season 2
Minis Challenge

If Hells 1 and 2 were counted as one, we would have 10 sources total. We could be tasked to pick out our single favourite clip from each project. Just a thought.

Three weeks is reasonable time to slap together a compilation. If we’re ready to go before the three weeks is up- we just say so, there’s only a dozen of us.
Might as well post our little “campaign speeches” at the same time as when the compilations are shared; make it a little more like an audition- you tell the panel about yourself, then you sing and have Simon Cowell tear you to shreds.

[Shuiia]

Dynamite idea Chaz.

[Akyho]

Might as well post our little “campaign speeches” at the same time as when the compilations are shared; make it a little more like an audition- you tell the panel about yourself, then you sing and have Simon Cowell tear you to shreds.

With me and my no hoop jumping policy it is going to look more like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DQR3bQplgc

[jinzo64]

Grouping Hell 1 and 2 together is a good idea.
Making 10 sources to pick 10 clips from is a good way to ensure we've watched a majority of the amvs.

Another way we go about this is to keep Hell 1 and 2 separate and pick 11 clips.

[urahara1001]

Does anybody object to Lawrayliet assuming the role of producer and one of the judges? Now’s the time to speak up.


I don't object, but if we go to make that decision, I would like us to clarify it: Would we then be voting for four judges with Law serving as the 5th? Would we still vote for 5 judges and have Law act as arbiter and make the tie breaking decision for clips? Is there some other hierarchy method we'd want to use?



If Hells 1 and 2 were counted as one, we would have 10 sources total. We could be tasked to pick out our single favourite clip from each project. Just a thought.


No objections here. I'm also good with Jinzo's suggestion of doing a top 11 and keeping 1 and 2 separate. Top 10 was chosen arbitrarily for being common, so we don't have to stay married to that number.



Three weeks is reasonable time to slap together a compilation. If we’re ready to go before the three weeks is up- we just say so, there’s only a dozen of us.
Might as well post our little “campaign speeches” at the same time as when the compilations are shared; make it a little more like an audition- you tell the panel about yourself, then you sing and have Simon Cowell tear you to shreds.

That's basically what I had in mind. Though since you're on the docket, we'll have to have someone else play Simon...

[jinzo64]

I have a question

How will determine who picked the best 11 amvs from the hundreds amvs we have to choose from?

At the end of the day this is all down to personal preference.

The likely hood of us all choosing the same clips is slim.
But if we did all pick the same clips all we'd have prove of is a group opinion that those 11 clips are the best clips from the ones available.

P.s how weird would it be if we did actually end up with 12 identical compilations of AMVS?

[thedarkmessenger]

Though since you're on the docket, we'll have to have someone else play Simon...
I'm not on the docket...

http://i.imgur.com/HGRHCB8.gif

[pzykosiz]

look at it this way, you don't have to do extra work

[milleniummaster18]

And that's why you're a twit.

Can't read into context.

[pzykosiz]

And that's why you're a twit.

Can't read into context.

looking for attention again mills?

[milleniummaster18]

Have you done what I told you to do yet?

Also, a pro tip: don't quote the post right below you. It makes you look like a twi- oh, you've got that covered. Never mind, proceed along.

[pzykosiz]

done what? and why should i care?

[SilentChaz]

^ Let’s keep the shenanigans in the chatbox, gentlemen.


Would we then be voting for four judges with Law serving as the 5th?
Lawrayliet is a judge, no further discussion. Our compilation test will help determine the remaining 2, 3 or 4 slots on the judging panel.


1. Another way we go about this is to keep Hell 1 and 2 separate and pick 11 clips.

2. How will (we) determine who picked the best 11 amvs from the hundreds amvs we have to choose from?

3. At the end of the day this is all down to personal preference.
1. No Doug Walker tropes in here, please. 10 is enough.
2. All we’re doing is evaluating the candidates’ judging abilities. We are not going to be deciding whose compilation is the best/worst.
3. Yes, personal preference is exactly what this will come down to. The candidate(s) who puts together the compilation that pleases me the most will get my vote(s).

[urahara1001]

1. No Doug Walker tropes in here, please. 10 is enough.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8u7px_GzWQ

Sorry, could not resist.

[jinzo64]

Lawrayliet is a judge, no further discussion. Our compilation test will help determine the remaining 2, 3 or 4 slots on the judging panel.

Judging panels should be made of odd numbers of people that way there's always a majority ruling in favor off or against a clip.


1. No Doug Walker tropes in here, please. 10 is enough

I don't know who Doug Walker is, I don't see why 10 in this case is better than 11 we still have to watch the same amount of footage at the end of the day. I think it would be nice to a see a clip from each of the amv hells.


2. All we’re doing is evaluating the candidates’ judging abilities. We are not going to be deciding whose compilation is the best/worst.
I see, That makes sense. It's a better idea than what thought we were planning on doing.


3. Yes, personal preference is exactly what this will come down to. The candidate(s) who puts together the compilation that pleases me the most will get my vote(s).
Okay that makes sense, so will these be posted on youtube?

[urahara1001]

Doug Walker is the Nostalgia Critic, and he always does top 11 countdowns.

Youtube is a possible method of displaying the compilations, possibly the most convenient, though I don't know that it would have to be the only one. Embedding it in the post with the campaign speech would be nice, but I think as long as it's in a format that everyone can get to and watch, it would be okay.

[LawRayLiet]

Another option available is to simply embed the mp4 directly from somewhere like Dropbox, since we have html5 video support here.

[thedarkmessenger]

Another option available is to simply embed the mp4 directly from somewhere like Dropbox, since we have html5 video support here.

I think this would be the best option.

[pzykosiz]

i agree, that way youtube can't complain

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

Well, it's been a busy week since I went on vacation.
Just playing a little catch-up now. I wasn't nominated, which isn't really a surprise, so no need
for acceptance/ second there. I am available for any other positions that may need backed-up or whatever.

I still have some reading to do, but it looks like 5 judges out of the docket will be good.
The docket list looks good too.

[Bill Ein]

Judging panels should be made of odd numbers of people that way there's always a majority ruling in favor off or against a clip.
Why?

[urahara1001]

If the vote is even, there's a tie. If it's odd, then ties don't happen. That way we don't have to worry about figuring out a tie breaking method.

[Bill Ein]

If the vote is even, there's a tie. If it's odd, then ties don't happen. That way we don't have to worry about figuring out a tie breaking method.
Why bad just rate minis with 3 points : "favorite/good/yes"=+1, "neutral/averege/I don't know"=0 (default mark if the judge does not vote), "hate/bad/no"=-1, and in the end just use in project only minis with the best rating?

Or use banal arithmetical mean system with standart 5 points (1=ugly, 2=bad, 3=averege, 4=good, 5=exelent), and in the end just use in project only minis with the best rating??

[urahara1001]

Employing some sort of point system is just going to create needless complication. It's far easier to just have each judge give a yes or no, and have an odd number of judges to prevent ties.

[Bill Ein]

Employing some sort of point system is just going to create needless complication. It's far easier to just have each judge give a yes or no, and have an odd number of judges to prevent ties.
But how about "neutral/averege/I don't know" point? You seriosly everytime have radiсal (black or white) opinion about everything? I think this teenager's maximalism is bad thing.

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

Employing some sort of point system is just going to create needless complication. It's far easier to just have each judge give a yes or no, and have an odd number of judges to prevent ties.

But Ura, If we did it the other way, then we can create an auditing committee to watch the point system, an auditing committee to watch the judges, an auditing committee to watch the above said committees.
And finally, a Ministry of auditing to oversee the auditing process.
Oh, and a judge cannot be on a committee, nor can anyone be on more than one committee concurrently.
See, it's actually very simple.

[urahara1001]

But how about "neutral/averege/I don't know" point? You seriosly everytime have radiсal (black or white) opinion about everything? I think this teenager's maximalism is bad thing.

The important thing for the judges to decide on is either "Yes, this clip is good enough to be in the final project" or "No, this doesn't meet our standards". If there are ways to improve the clip, they can give those suggestions to the creator so that they can go back, edit, and resubmit. It was already discussed earlier that if we simply do a yes/no decision for each clip based on its own merits as they come in, then we will save ourselves the complication of having a maybe pile to pick from.

[Bill Ein]

The important thing for the judges to decide on is either "Yes, this clip is good enough to be in the final project" or "No, this doesn't meet our standards". If there are ways to improve the clip, they can give those suggestions to the creator so that they can go back, edit, and resubmit. It was already discussed earlier that if we simply do a yes/no decision for each clip based on its own merits as they come in, then we will save ourselves the complication of having a maybe pile to pick from.
How about to use "like" system without "dislike" and "neutral" points? It's 1-point system. Just watch mini and press "like" if you like it or not rate if you dislike/neutral.

[SilentChaz]

Drop it. The judges can discuss their judgement system after they are elected.

Alright, time to get compiling...

[Guthix]

How about to use "like" system without "dislike" and "neutral" points? It's 1-point system. Just watch mini and press "like" if you like it or not rate if you dislike/neutral.

having a neutral rating is equivalent of not judging at all, which defeates the purpose of this miss universe pageant.
such a rating is valid for viewers only, for gathering info/statistics. not for someone who is gonna do an already time consuming job.

[pzykosiz]

the pool of judges and the actual amount of editors doesn't really warrant a more complicated system than yay/nay.
might as well leave it at that

[thedarkmessenger]

We might as well just outright ignore anything and everything Bill says from this point on. It's become pretty damn obvious he's alone in his opinions.

Plus, I have a strong feeling he's just trying to make this his project instead of the community's project. If you want your own project so badly, Bill, then go off and make it on your own.

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

The outright "accepted" and "rejected" clips should really take of themselves, anyway.
It's those "could be's" that need to be worked out, maybe, as I suspect they will be
the bulk of your submissions. I guess that I'm hinting at the 1-3-5 star rating system
Zarx used for Minis submissions. It could be helpful if he allowed the use of the forms
and forums (or a new section like it) from them.

It was a great way for editors to see the comments from the judges in confidence
and make changes that would sometimes bring a mediocre clip to something presentable.
I'm sure the forms helped make the crediting process much easier to deal with.
Fielded information does that.

[urahara1001]

We will be able to fiddle around more with the submissions process when we do our trial run project. Most people seem to be in favor of that, and it is a good idea to get the kinks ironed out before we make a go at a big project. As Chaz pointed out, a lot of it will need to be discussed among the judges since they'll be the ones overseeing it.

From what I'm seeing so far in the discussion, it looks like people are in favor of automatically appointing Law as a judge and producer. We'll take Law off the docket then and have four slots remaining. For everyone else on the docket, I'm not seeing any solid objections to the campaigning approach outlined previously, so let's run with that. You've got three weeks to make your best of choices from each major non-zero style project (combining Hell 1 and 2 together), and to come up with a post of no more than 150 words outlining why you think you're qualified to judge and how you'll handle choices if chosen. If you're done before three weeks is up, just make a post here and if everyone finishes early, we'll start the election sooner. Plan to embed the compilation of your top 10 choices either from Dropbox or another source along with your post. When the election starts, I'll make a new thread with a poll specifically for that purpose.

In the mean time, we can continue discussion here on any other aspects we'll need to hammer out. For example, people seem to all agree to doing some sort of trial run project, but we haven't fully decided what.

[thedarkmessenger]

In the mean time, we can continue discussion here on any other aspects we'll need to hammer out. For example, people seem to all agree to doing some sort of trial run project, but we haven't fully decided what.

Minis Season 4? Something like the minis would be similar to what Hell 8 would be, only much smaller and easier to handle. I feel like doing a whole season would be best, so that we can make sure we've actually worked out any kinks that pop up before moving on to a bigger project.

[jinzo64]

I'm happy with the way things are progressing, slightly disappointed were sticking with grouping hell 1 and 2 together but that's neither here nor there.

I don't mind watching all the amv hells again and picking 10 clips to make a compilation to put up on dropbox that fine.
How ever I find my self with a new problem, the 150 word statement as to why I should be selected as a judge.
I should be a judge because(insert positive statement here)

[urahara1001]

Bear in mind that 150 is just the maximum, you don't have to use all of it. In fact, you don't have to talk about yourself at all. You can use your 150 words to talk about kittens if you want. Just realize that this is your one official chance to outline the basis for why people should vote for you. What you say will reflect on that.

[Akyho]

Here is my 147 word plea.......which is just my last thing cut down to the important bits.


1: I be just judge
2: I pick at every bit of AMV Hells since 6.
4: the dark comedy stuff
6: voted as a judge or not
7: going to vote for me or not

[The Real Inferno]

3 weeks is a bit of a huge window (and kind of encourages being lazy IMO, but whatevs)

I already made my video last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhWccndBEs4&feature=youtu.be
Clip order: 3, 1/2, 4, 6.66, CE, Minis S1, 5, 7, Minis Challenge, Minis S2

I would make a good judge for this project. I have already been a clip judge for a similarly large project in the past (AMV Blitz which sadly suffered through a lot of issues on the technical side with the other two judges who were also in charge of putting the final project together), so I'm familiar with good clip judging methods and working with other judges in tandem to decide whether or not clips should be accepted. I've also been a prolific contributor to the Hell series in the past, having clips in as far back as AMV Hell 4 (which were the first AMVs I had ever made back then). People know I have a pretty broad sense of humor, while also not lacking in my critical traits. I'm generally honest and don't have much invested in telling anyone one way or the other whether their clip should be in. I believe clips need to meet some minimum technical standards, and it isn't out of the question for a user to be required to fix these issues before a clip be accepted (but that if it's possible, judges could just fix the issues or even remake simple clips themselves to make sure they meet these standards). I also believe judges should be in contact and discussion with one another, and not just judging each clip by themselves and that's the end of it. I think we need a group of judges with a diverse sense of humor and level of technical expertise. Anyway I guess I can discuss more of that if I get selected. Just keep in mind that I've got experience, editing skills and am just enough of an asshole to get the job done right.

*This is where a clever joke goes.*

[Sir Fluffykins]

^The "DBZ - Always Love You" clip has stood the test of time well, sadly those others didn't, for me.

[SilentChaz]

I should be a judge because(insert positive statement here)
If you can’t justify yourself…


You've got three weeks to make your best of choices from each major non-zero style project (combining Hell 1 and 2 together), and to come up with a post of no more than 150 words outlining why you think you're qualified to judge
Deadline = 12th June 2015 then. Let’s do it.


Video & Statement
Interesting, the fact that Inferno shared his (I’ll use this pronoun until corrected) compilation so soon says to me that he knows his AMV Hell history, knows exactly what he likes and doesn’t waste time getting things done.
Then there’s his statement, which is 140 words over the limit. Inferno is a regular, fallible human being after all. I like it.


I’m happy to see that Inferno’s picks are already completely different from my own. With any luck- I’ll have my stuff ready before Tuesday.

I would strongly encourage the candidates to not try and justify their compilation picks. Whether you’re picking what you consider to be the best/greatest/favourite/most popular with a general audience isn’t important, your picks are just a (tiny) reflection of your tastes and nothing more.
Let the content do the talking, don’t go arguing things like “but in x years time no one will get y” or “z was good too but I picked w because”.

[urahara1001]

I was kind of hoping people done early would keep their statements and compilations in reserve for the voting thread in order to avoid any influences over other people still making theirs, but that wasn't ever specified ahead of time. If there's anyone to blame on that, it's me for not thinking to put it down while organizing. Sorry, that's my bad. Everyone still making their compilation, just try to make sure you're still judging based solely on your opinion. Also, Inferno (and anyone else that chooses to post early), I would ask that you copy your post over to the voting thread once it opens just for the sake of having all the statements in the same place.

[jinzo64]

If you can’t justify yourself…

I think I see what you're getting at.
If I can't justify why I should be judge how can justify why a clip should or should not be in amvhell 8.

If that is what you're getting at, Then I guess I'll just have to think of away to justify myself.

I will do this.
I will make a compilation video and I will justify my self.

[thedarkmessenger]

I think I see what you're getting at.
If I can't justify why I should be judge how can justify why a clip should or should not be in amvhell 8.

I think Chaz is more saying "If you can't justify yourself, why should we?" In other words: why should we vote for you if you lack confidence?

[jinzo64]

That does make more sense.
I'm confident that people will make some fantastic amvs,I'm confident that I can judge them fairly and offer advice to those who have made amvs with potential but aren't quit good enough.

I'm working hard to finish my compilation.(It should be finished in the next couple of days)

[itschickenscratch]

Expect my compilation and statement to be done within 3 days, due to work limitations.

[Bill Ein]

We might as well just outright ignore anything and everything Bill says from this point on. It's become pretty damn obvious he's alone in his opinions.

Plus, I have a strong feeling he's just trying to make this his project instead of the community's project. If you want your own project so badly, Bill, then go off and make it on your own.
What? Are you seriously? Just intresting to me why you want to use yes/no system and agree with this other people in community or not and you think I trying to make my project? What the blond logic? Or are you smoking something?

[pzykosiz]

i think it's more the fact that you've been pushing non stop for a lot of things like bigger judging groups and point based voting.

for the purpose of this project, a lot of the ideas you've had are just gonna over complicate a system that hasn't even been implemented yet.

if anything needs to be changed, it'll be done when problems are actually found

[thedarkmessenger]

What? Are you seriously? Just intresting to me why you want to use yes/no system and agree with this other people in community or not and you think I trying to make my project? What the blond logic? Or are you smoking something?

You continue to push the same bull**** on us over and over even after we all shoot your ideas down 1,000 times. You might not be full of yourself, but you're most certainly full of something.

The community has spoken against your ideas time and time and time and time and time again. If you're legit not trying to take over this community project, then learn to accept what the community decides.

[Guthix]

You continue to push the same bull**** on us over and over even after we all shoot your ideas down 1,000 times. You might not be full of yourself, but you're most certainly full of something.

The community has spoken against your ideas time and time and time and time and time again. If you're legit not trying to take over this community project, then learn to accept what the community decides.

basicaly we are too lazy and dont have enough people to pull off your ideas bill

[milleniummaster18]

You continue to push the same bull**** on us over and over

Community this, community that, community, community, community.

The hypocrisy is killing me. And you're not the only broken record...

[Bill Ein]

The community has spoken against your ideas time and time and time and time and time again. If you're legit not trying to take over this community project, then learn to accept what the community decides.
Why you think I not to accepted? My latest posts it's just only interest. I do not insist on anything. I only want to know why you think yes/no system better then other systems and I got an answer.

[The Real Inferno]

I'm kinda of surprised you guys can even decipher what the **** Bill is saying.

[thedarkmessenger]

The hypocrisy is killing me. And you're not the only broken record...

Fell free to show me where I shoved my ideas down everyone's throat, even when rejected numerous times.

[SilentChaz]

Statements and compilations

Ready:
The Real Inferno
SilentChaz


In progress/ awaiting comment:
Jinzo64
itschickenscratch
Shuiia
Haar
Kaiju
MADEVIL
Akyho
adzman
milleniummaster18

LawRayLiet – Not required

Your input is appreciated Bill Ein. We'll continue the discussion when the current subject of electing a judging panel is settled.

In the meantime- please play nicely, peeps.

[milleniummaster18]

Fell free to show me where I shoved my ideas down everyone's throat, even when rejected numerous times.

I'd rather have your current handler ask me that personally.

[Pafk]

Having offered my services to help build a judging platform previously, I do think a simple yes/no may be lacking. However at the same time further discussion does no good at the moment. It is up to the judges to choose amongst themselves what will help them make the best decisions. After the three weeks and the voting we can give our input and rationale to try to push the judging process in what we believe is the right direction.

Tldr
Even if you convince the entire community if all the judges disagree it's a waste of time.

P.S.
Still offering my help to create the platform for submissions. Just wanted to clarify since I only offered to create the communal judging platform in my last message

[Shuiia]

I'm kinda of surprised you guys can even decipher what the **** Bill is saying.

It requires the power of squatting.
http://s29.postimg.org/gjtiyll93/1432138920494.jpg

[jinzo64]

I've had a crazy idea.
When we finally decide who the judges are going to be, we should have a community vote to decide what type of voting method will used when judging the clips submitted to amvhell 8.

So far we have
option 1.
Yes.
No.

Option 2
A 5 star rating system.

option 3.
yes
no
maybe

[Guthix]

>voting on voting
yeah this is going downhill slowly [ and i dont mean just jinzo]

[jinzo64]

Like I said crazy.
Also it's not voting on voting it's voting on a method of voting.

Slowly going downhill, I thought I'd already reached the bottom. XD

p.s Random thought do you think bill is a science guy?

[urahara1001]

Even if we were to implement some sort of intermediate rating system, what purpose would that serve? The only reason to do that would be to create tiers of quality. What's the point of that, when in the end, the important decision is: does it get in or not? The only purpose I can think of would be for a maybe pile, but it's up to the judges if they want to bother with that aspect.

Personally, I'm in favor of what I outlined before; we just accept good clips and reject bad ones until we have enough good content to fill our desired goal. It eliminates the hassle and waste of the maybe pile, it will keep our quality at or above a minimum standard, and there's no scramble at the end to either fill in dead space with **** clips or cut out potentially good ones in order to match a certain time frame.

If people are just wanting a rating system as a way to soften the blow when told their clip is ****, then think of each judge as giving a star with their 'yes'. For five judges, you need at least a three star rating in order to make it in to the end project.

[Pafk]

Its because an alternate rating system make for a good starting point in discussing each clip when it comes to the end. The goal isn't to soften the blow of rejection but to create a sort of ranking system to keep everyone on the same page for a particular clip.

A more in-depth explanation of my thoughts on the matter hidden because its really not the time to have this conversation yet but we're having it anyways:In the system I thought out the judges would have a yes/no on the clip's humor, a rating on the clip's humor and a yes/no on quality of the clip(audio and video quality and maybe the lip-syncing). Since most people expect the submissions to be based on time and not until you have 1.2 hours of yes clips.

With this system if you have too many clips(say you're making a mini's length video) you can differentiate between the 3 yes vs 2 no with the 3 votes for being barely accepted and the 2 for being awful and the same votes but with 3 for good and 2 for barely rejected.

With this system if you have a unanimously accepted clip with a great humor rating but awful video/audio quality you can ask the producer to remake the clip if the submitter doesn't respond.
(rereading your post I see that you seem dead set on a minimum quality and no deadline submission approach but I still stand by the usefulness of the additional yes/no for the quality of the video/audio)


The bottom line is that the community has no say in the judgement system because its not meant to give them input on their clips(that is the purpose of giving judges commenting privilege), but to make the decision making process run smoothly for the judges. In my opinion having a few additional fields can help the judges get up to speed on what everyone else thinks, but that is just my opinion.

[Guthix]

Like I said crazy.
Also it's not voting on voting it's voting on a method of voting.

Slowly going downhill, I thought I'd already reached the bottom. XD

p.s Random thought do you think bill is a science guy?
same ****, and like i said it wasnt just about you jinzo, this project is starting to get holes, going from a judge to a politician with personal speeches with a word count limit thats been ingored, laws bypass, bills shuning from the comunity even though he is part of the comunity.

Even if we were to implement some sort of intermediate rating system, what purpose would that serve? The only reason to do that would be to create tiers of quality. What's the point of that, when in the end, the important decision is: does it get in or not? The only purpose I can think of would be for a maybe pile, but it's up to the judges if they want to bother with that aspect.

Personally, I'm in favor of what I outlined before; we just accept good clips and reject bad ones until we have enough good content to fill our desired goal. It eliminates the hassle and waste of the maybe pile, it will keep our quality at or above a minimum standard, and there's no scramble at the end to either fill in dead space with **** clips or cut out potentially good ones in order to match a certain time frame.

If people are just wanting a rating system as a way to soften the blow when told their clip is ****, then think of each judge as giving a star with their 'yes'. For five judges, you need at least a three star rating in order to make it in to the end project.

this is probably a blind shot in the dark, but with bills system there would be categories of clip quality, which would assist in making the final project more seamingless.
if the order would be something like: good, decent, good, decent, ect. then there wouldnt be moments where its 10 mins of awsome folowed by 20 mins of mediocrity. but its what the project leader is for, so meh. lets see what bill has to say.

[jinzo64]

I'm very much for The simple yes no voting system.

It was one of my earlier suggestions that we have an odd number off judges for majority voting.

Like I said voting on a method of voting was a crazy idea, mainly just for a bit of fun.

I don't think there is going to be a project leader, I think the order of the clips will determined by law, she/he is the one who will be making the finished product.

[adzman]

I'm going to opt out. I have no urge to make a compilation or explain myself. Also this constant bickering is probably similar to what one might see while judging and that annoys me. Hope to see you all during submission.

[SilentChaz]

That’s a shame, it would have been interesting to see your 10 picks.

Stop having crazy ideas, Jinzo. Work on your statement.

Statements and compilations

Ready:
The Real Inferno
SilentChaz


In progress/ awaiting comment:
Jinzo64
itschickenscratch
Shuiia
Haar
Kaiju
MADEVIL
Akyho
milleniummaster18


Opted out
adzman

[Kaiju]

Might opt out as well, not sure yet.
Namely is I have no idea on how to do the basics of editing videos, free program or no. As well as I am having IRl problems right now as Haar can confirm.
I can compose a list of videos, and I can compose a statement.
But really, I don't think I can really find the time to learn how to compose a video in my current IRL situation which might mean a smart thing for me to do is opt out as I likely won't be able to commit as a judge in that context.

Still unsure, so I'm letting you guys know my current dilemma.

[milleniummaster18]

If you want reasons to keep on with this "community project", I'm not sure people are going to give you any. Frankly, you're better off tending to your real life business.

[Akyho]

Might opt out as well, not sure yet.
Namely is I have no idea on how to do the basics of editing videos, free program or no. As well as I am having IRl problems right now as Haar can confirm.
I can compose a list of videos, and I can compose a statement.
But really, I don't think I can really find the time to learn how to compose a video in my current IRL situation which might mean a smart thing for me to do is opt out as I likely won't be able to commit as a judge in that context.

Still unsure, so I'm letting you guys know my current dilemma.



If you want reasons to keep on with this "community project", I'm not sure people are going to give you any. Frankly, you're better off tending to your real life business.

Much why I am not doing anything more than judging, I have college work and what not so I will be able to have an hour or so a day where I will happily cast judgment on clips in that time. However I aint got time for any more involvement, I do not have the conviction to opt out officaly, so I am leaving the boat to steer itself if its crashes sure....if it steers itself awesome, I am not going to fight it.

So you could take my approach Kaiju and no officially opt out but be a stubborn asshole and say "nope not gonna make a video." and just be disqualified by default.

[pzykosiz]

at this rate, we're not gonna have anyone left

[jinzo64]

I'm seeing this through to the end, I'm really close to finishing my compilation and I'm working on my statement.

I have lots of bank statements but it's not quite the same thing is it.

[Guthix]

four down
five to go

[urahara1001]

Check your math. Adzman, Kaiju, and Akyho only make three.

[Kaiju]

Check your math. Adzman, Kaiju, and Akyho only make three.

And even then, I'm still a 'maybe'. I can still figure something out.
So only two.

[thedarkmessenger]

And even then, I'm still a 'maybe'. I can still figure something out.
So only two.

going by that we only have one, as Akyho basically listed himself as a "maybe" as well.

[SuperLoliSentai]

Check your math. Adzman, Kaiju, and Akyho only make three.

Am I forgotten so quickly?

Also, I can't believe Law is so fickle. At the start of this whole thing he was completely against it. Now he is already confirmed to be a judge and producer? Not only has he joined in the corpse humping, he got a FastPass to the front of the line.

[milleniummaster18]

It just makes this farce more evident.

[urahara1001]

Am I forgotten so quickly?

Yes.

Also, you declined your nomination before the docket was even finalized, so that doesn't really count as backing out.

[LawRayLiet]

Also, I can't believe Law is so fickle. At the start of this whole thing he was completely against it. Now he is already confirmed to be a judge and producer? Not only has he joined in the corpse humping, he got a FastPass to the front of the line.
Against what? A community produced AMV Hell 8?
I still think it's a bad idea for the most part, but the main reason I didn't want to to do it was because I know Zarx would prefer we simply make our own project.
I've spoken to Zarx and can tell you for a certainty this whole "He's given AMV Hell over to the community" is a big misunderstanding, as I've stated many times previously. He was simply encouraging people to start their own AMV Hell GENRE spin-offs, not giving people permission to take over the name. I've asked him to make a statement against it and I'll turn heel, but he says he has no comment.

I've made clear from the beginning both to Zarx and publicly, that if Zarx wants to end AMV Hell, I'll salvage what I can of the community for another ongoing project for those still interested to join in on. (which from the "Future of AMV Hell", seems to be a quite a bit.) I had originally planned to start a thread around it and personally invite Chaz, Harr and Inferno to be the judges, but then this thread was created. I don't have a a problem with the community selecting the judges themselves, as long as they support the project. It's seeming like it'll turn out the way I planned anyway, just with an additional judge besides the 3 I mentioned, which is fine.
Once all is said and done though, I'll be pushing for an original series like before. I'm still against corpse humping, but starting an original series without the AMV Hell name wouldn't qualify as that. It'll still be produced by the remnants of the AMV Hell community though.

[Guthix]

Check your math. Adzman, Kaiju, and Akyho only make three.

i threw in haar into the mix since he was having second thoughts

any member who is not sure about this gig will either quit before the submissions end or will simply regret being there. it seems that some have forgoten how mind blowingly bad some entries are from newcomers and how scorchingly unfair the viewers responses on the choises are made in the project, not to mention the sheer volume of hate one judge has goten in the past for inactivity. if you got cold feet, run.

[thedarkmessenger]

I've spoken to Zarx and can tell you for a certainty this whole "He's given AMV Hell over to the community" is a big misunderstanding, as I've stated many times previously. He was simply encouraging people to start their own AMV Hell GENRE spin-offs, not giving people permission to take over the name. I've asked him to make a statement against it and I'll turn heel, but he says he has no comment.


But if you support the idea of AMV Hell--if its something important to you, it will still live on... through you.
If he didn't want us to continue Hell, he really should've worded this part better...

Either way, I personally don't really care if we go with a different name for this project.

[Kaiju]

If he didn't want us to continue Hell, he really should've worded this part better...

Either way, I personally don't really care if we go with a different name for this project.

AMV 8.88: (We're Going to) HELL (for this)

[SilentChaz]

Am I forgotten so quickly?
What an awful thing to ask. Your polite declining of your nomination was duly respected and noted.


Lawrayliet got a FastPass to the front of the line.

It just makes this farce more evident.
There were no objections voiced to Law’s fast-passing. So no foul.


if you got cold feet, run.
My thoughts exactly.

Video editing issues? Busy? Fine, give me your 10 picks. I’ll compile your damned videos.
Haar, Mad, Mill, are you going through with a statement and compilation or what?


this whole "Zarx has given AMV Hell over to the community" is a big misunderstanding
No bones about it- this is a hostile takeover.

[Haar]

I'm as honest as I want to be. If I don't like something, I simply don't like it. I will not mince words and pretend to like something just to make people feel better and I will not favor anyone that thinks they are my friend whilst judging. At the same time, I won't be hypercritical and will try my best to offer whatever sort of advice I can come up with for your video. Essentially, while I can be a little harsh at times, know that I'm mostly doing it because you probably messed something up and deserved the insults I leveled at you. Otherwise, I would have just calmly stated a nice, bland statement about the video at hand.

Hard to say what my 10 favorite clips are, but I'll work on telling you guys about that later if I feel like it.

[Akyho]

I'm as honest as I want to be. If I don't like something, I simply don't like it. I will not mince words and pretend to like something just to make people feel better and I will not favor anyone that thinks they are my friend whilst judging. At the same time, I won't be hypercritical and will try my best to offer whatever sort of advice I can come up with for your video. Essentially, while I can be a little harsh at times, know that I'm mostly doing it because you probably messed something up and deserved the insults I leveled at you. Otherwise, I would have just calmly stated a nice, bland statement about the video at hand.

Hard to say what my 10 favorite clips are, but I'll work on telling you guys about that later if I feel like it.

Know what? haar is a strong candidate for being in the final position more than I, lets face it he and I are basicly the same person and what he just said is what I would do. So instead of me being this **** wit "Maybe" and "I ain't editing" crap as long as Haar gets in then there is absolutely no need for me to be on the judges panel.

So eh I will officially back out in order to stop being an asshole, however Kaiju if your still up for it and think the project can still come in line with your real life stuff shoot your list to Chaz as I think you would be a very different judge and that would be good.

Also Law is talking a little bit of sense about saying this is "AMV HELL 8!" and such, I think right now we should gather under the banner of AMV Hell 8 make it as much as we want an AMV Hell 8 and then come back to the discussion on if we are releasing this as AMV Hell 8 or if we should do the whole break away thing like Law feels better about.

[thedarkmessenger]

Also Law is talking a little bit of sense about saying this is "AMV HELL 8!" and such, I think right now we should gather under the banner of AMV Hell 8 make it as much as we want an AMV Hell 8 and then come back to the discussion on if we are releasing this as AMV Hell 8 or if we should do the whole break away thing like Law feels better about.

I agree with this.

....and I've got nothing else to add....

Damnit, Ura! Stop making me +1 **** for you!

[ThatsNotMyName_studio]

It comes down to this:
If the idea is to keep the AMV Hell franchise alive, then it should be named as such.
If, however, the idea is to find a new home for orphaned AMV Hell editors, then a new
name is in order.

If you choose option 2, you lose name recognition and goodwill... as well as the purpose of this discussion
in the first place.

[urahara1001]

That's how I see it as well. And as Dark mentioned, the message starting all this didn't really convey that the intent was for others to make something new. Having a post titled 'The Future of AMV Hell' implies that AMV Hell actually has a future, and the statements on empowering the community members definitely seemed to say that that future would be with the community. If the intention was to end AMV Hell, the message should have been more along the lines of "Hey you schmucks, the forum will stay open, but I'm closing up shop on projects. If you want more, get off your lazy asses and do your own thing." If my read into the message given seems off, I apologize for that, but I figure I should at least give some sort of explanation to my read and motivations, since I volunteered to start the organization process.

As I've said from the beginning, if this thing dies, it dies. If Zarx wanted to step in and say that this wasn't the intention and ask for a stop, I know I would respect that and let the matter drop and lie right there (I can't speak for the rest of you, of course). Since that hasn't happened, I interpret the silence to either be approval or indifference. In either case, I believe it then still comes back to the same place where we've been from the start; what does the community want to do? If everyone or even just the majority decides they'd rather drop the AMV Hell label all together and come up with something new and different, fine; we'll let the thread die and allow the discussion to be picked up by whoever is involved with the new production at whatever new outlet is chosen.

However, from where I stand, it looks like people are still interested in carrying on the AMV Hell name and seeing through what has been discussed here. At the time of writing, this thread is already at 19 pages, and if you really look at it, most of it has been actual serious discussion and participation (of course there is some bickering, but if you think about it, the amount has been extremely low for what our norm is). I believe there's enough interest, talent, and willing effort here to at least make the attempt to keep AMV Hell alive both in name and spirit. Prove me right or prove me wrong, I don't care which, but either way it's going to come down to what this mob decides on.

I probably should have posted all this sooner after Law's post, but this was the point when it all got thought up and typed out, so here it will be I guess.

[LawRayLiet]

I don't care to argue over his wording, but if you want confirmation of what I've said, you can message him yourself.
Yes, I would say his choice to give no comment is indifference at the moment. Which is which is why I'm not exactly against using the name, but I do it see it as being problematic.
Any effort put into producing an 8th AMV Hell would be utterly ruined if anywhere during the process SSG were to announce an AMV Hell 8 himself(which juding from tweets, seems quite possible).
His would take priority for a number of reasons...

1. His would be official and would be listed as such in the main page News.

2. He's got name recognition, both here and on the org as an official producer of AMV Hell and would receive the same guaranteed support as always.

3. He has Zarx backing for sure and therefore access to the official YT channel with 20,000+ subs. We have "no comment" from Zarx.

My thinking is that if we're going to put work and effort into something, it should be something we know for sure that we will have absolute dominion over. Something that can't be broken so easily.
Once again, I'm not COMPLETELY against it or anything, as long as Zarx has no comment, but those are just my thoughts on the matter.

[thedarkmessenger]

I actually agree with Law on the naming subject. No matter how insane SSG is, he's still got the "brand name" power. If SSG officially announces Hell 8, ours is screwed unless we name it something else. And even then, how many editors making clips for our project would stay with our ship when SSG brings his to port?

We know SSG is insane....but many others do not.

Also...



I don't care to argue over his wording...
What would you even accomplish? No matter how valid your points on the subject are, nothing you say can change the reality of how we interpreted it. It may not have been what Zarx wanted to say, but that's what we saw, PERIOD. No amount of "but....but....his wording was fine!" will magically change that.

And of course it's going to seem fine to you. You interpreted it differently, so you obviously didn't see the same thing we saw. As such, you'll have a much harder time than us seeing what might have been unclear. All you can really argue is what your interpretation was, and then keep telling us over and over that our interpretation is wrong (along with some name-calling). That, by itself, isn't proof at all that Zarx's wording is perfectly fine.

Then again you probably realize all this and that's why you don't feel like arguing the matter.

[urahara1001]

I'm not looking for an argument either, just clarifying how I interpreted the situation to explain why I went about things the way I did. I could say more on that, but Dark pretty much has what I'd say covered, so I think we can leave the situation at intentions being different than how the message came across. I have no reason to doubt you on Zarx's intentions, Law, so I'm not questioning that.

For my personal stance on the naming issue: I haven't addressed it in the thread, but I have made mention in the chatbox that I'm well aware SSG could show up and send everything tumbling down, so I've known from the start that trying to carry on the name of AMV Hell stands on shaky ground. However, I feel that's the key to keeping things truly together. AMV Hell is the name that started it all; it not only defined, but created the genre. There have been many, many imitators, but none have stuck out, stayed on top, and had the claim to fame like the original. I believe that, in the eyes of the public, if we abandon the name, we become just another pretender to the throne. Even if the quality of the end project under a different name is on par or higher, to the average internet user I believe it's just going to look like another knock off.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but I think it's still relevant here; if it dies, it dies. If we can't use the name AMV Hell because of disruption or because people don't want to put effort into it for fear of disruption, so be it. But if it does die, I don't think anything derivative is ever going to replace it.

[thedarkmessenger]

AMV Hell is the name that started it all; it not only defined, but created the genre. There have been many, many imitators, but none have stuck out, stayed on top, and had the claim to fame like the original. I believe that, in the eyes of the public, if we abandon the name, we become just another pretender to the throne. Even if the quality of the end project under a different name is on par or higher, to the average internet user I believe it's just going to look like another knock off.

I'd like to disagree....but then I remember Wal-mart, Madden NFL (insert current year here), Final Fantasy, DragonBall, Star Wars, etc, etc....

Brand name really does hold more power than I'd like.

[LawRayLiet]

if it dies, it dies. If we can't use the name AMV Hell because of disruption or because people don't want to put effort into it for fear of disruption, so be it. But if it does die, I don't think anything derivative is ever going to replace it.
With SSG willing, it's not necessarily needing to be replaced at the moment, which is the problem I'm calling attention to.
I would be fine with us producing an 8th if this really was the end of AMV Hell, or even if an 8th we're unlikely to be made. But SSG has been tweeting about this frequently, so I'd say it's more likely then not.

I've seen mentioned by a number of people both in and out of this thread about testing the waters with another season of Minis first, which sounds like a better idea to me for a few reasons.

1. With only Zarx behind Minis and having now stepped down, there's no chance of us producing it being disrupted.

2. Focusing on this first would give us enough time to see if SSG announces an 8th Hell.

3. After releasing some quality episodes, it would build confidence behind the team and what we can produce. With more people having confidence in the project, we'll likely see more submissions for any future projects.

[thedarkmessenger]

I've seen mentioned by a number of people both in and out of this thread about testing the waters with another season of Minis first, which sounds like a better idea to me for a few reasons.

1. With only Zarx behind Minis and having now stepped down, there's no chance of us producing it being disrupted.

2. Focusing on this first would give us enough time to see if SSG announces an 8th Hell.

3. After releasing some quality episodes, it would build confidence behind the team and what we can produce. With more people having confidence in the project, we'll likely see more submissions for any future projects.

Law is filled with good ideas. :o

[jinzo64]

The main problem, seems to be with naming of the project.

why wasn't this mentioned earlier in the thread?

If SSG does decide to make amvhell 8 we can always call our project amvhell Z, Amvhell Beta. Amvhell beta could be a good name for this project as it would be the first community made amvhell.

[Guthix]

London Bridge is falling down,
Falling down, falling down.
London Bridge is falling down,
My fair lady.

[SilentChaz]

Hard to say what my 10 favorite clips are, but I'll work on telling you guys about that later if I feel like it.
<sigh> Even Jinzo is taking this process seriously...



Any effort put into producing an 8th AMV Hell would be utterly ruined if anywhere during the process SSG were to announce an AMV Hell 8 himself

He's got name recognition, both here and on the org as an official producer of AMV Hell and would receive the same guaranteed support as always.
I wonder about this. SSG has certainly earned my distrust enough to never contribute to anything he’s involved with producing… but that’s just little old me.


testing the waters with another season of Minis

After releasing some quality episodes, it would build confidence behind the team and what we can produce. With more people having confidence in the project, we'll likely see more submissions for any future projects.
Smart idea. It’s a logical step towards the destination that is AMV Hell 8.


If the idea is to keep the AMV Hell franchise alive, then it should be named as such.

If you choose [to rename the project], you lose name recognition and goodwill
Agreed. As much as you lot may like to dump on what AMV Hell is/has become lately, the brand is the important thing here.

Given a push however- if we were to adopt an alternative name for a large project, I fancy the sound of:

AMV Hell-Spawn 8 : [insert subtitle]

Not very subtle, I know, but it would let people know exactly where we came from.

[pzykosiz]

this may be a bad question, but is it possible to contact SSG in some way and figure this out?

(gonna just point out, in the time i've been here, i've never seen him do anything in the forums,
so i don't know what he's like, but it seems like a more direct approach than speculating over the entire construct)

[jinzo64]

From reading previous post's it seems he's active on twitter I guess somebody whom follows him on twitter could ask him if he has any plans to do an amv hell 8.



<sigh> Even Jinzo is taking this process seriously...
I'm not sure how to take this but anyway I've finished making compilation just need to render it.

P.s I personally think if we have to come up with a new project name it should use words like alpha,beta and omega as it's subtitle.

[urahara1001]

The subject of doing something similar to the minis as a means to test the waters was discussed and I think most people were in favor of it, but I believe it got set on the back burner a bit while we finished hashing out the nominations. Since that has been mentioned again a few times, let's circle back to getting some specifics nailed down.

If we're going to use it as a test, I think we should try to keep it in a similar format to what we're thinking of for a large project, just kept in smaller scale. I believe most people seemed to be in favor of the idea of not setting a deadline for submissions, but rather to simply allow the project to be done when it's done. I say we give this a shot with this minis attempt; we accept submissions until we have say ten minutes of photage that the judges have deemed worthy (substitute whatever time frame you like). We then compile and release that episode. There's not a scheduled release, we just do it when it's finished. After each one, we (mostly the judges) do a debriefing on what worked and what didn't, and make changes as needed.

If we're talking about doing a whole season, we should probably plan a set number of episodes ahead of time (13 I believe is a standard season, and should give plenty of testing opportunity). We can also decide if we want to try doing a theme or something with each episode or say to hell with it and just try to get something that's funny.

[Shuiia]

I concur with that we should start of small first in order to feel this thing out. Early on I expressed my concerns immediately diving into the deep with this project so I won't repeat myself. I think we should just, to start out, keep it to making stuff when we deem it ready and not start of by saying we're gonna make an "x" amount of videos. Because what if, for one reason or another, this whole project just doesn't end up working out. It is my honest opinion to just start small and feel things out before committing to something major. Lest we hang ourselves with our own ambition.

Regarding themes. Something we might consider indeed but I don't think it would be a good idea. The themed installments of minis weren't really something to write home about in all honesty.

Oh yeah, my top 10 and motivation. That'll come at some point or another. Only rewatched Hell 1 and 2 yesterday in order to determine my favorite clip from those two so I've still got some watching to do. Being loaded with college work for the next couple of weeks doesn't really help either.

[thedarkmessenger]

I'm not sure how to take this
Chaz was aiming that more at Haar than you. Basically he's saying Haar is putting forth only a half-hearted attempt even compared to someone everyone is basically expecting a half-hearted attempt from.

That being said, Haar, you've lost my vote. If you care so little now, why should I believe you're going to magically start caring later? Not worth the risk when there's better nominations, bro.

@minis topic: I'm pretty sure most, if not all of us, agree that starting small is a far better idea than just jumping in. I don't see anyone saying we should totally just skip the minis and work on Hell 8 right freakin' now. Some seem to be under the impression that we are taking that route, though....

[Guthix]

minis are less entertaining than amv hell

[Haar]

Basically he's saying Haar is putting forth only a half-hearted attempt even compared to someone everyone is basically expecting a half-hearted attempt from.
So you're going to completely disregard the fact that I followed the first part due to me holding off on the cumbersome and unnecessary second part, to the point that you put me under the level of Jinzo? Keep in mind that Inferno had his video prepared months in advance (which I can't really fault you for not knowing since he uploaded the version you saw just for this competition) and even agrees with me that having to make a video as a reference to your top 10 clips is needlessly complex for something like this. Did you suddenly forget that we haven't even come up with a name for this thing yet? I mean, we're already splitting hairs about "proportional expectations" and the abortion hasn't even reached it's second trimester.


That being said, Haar, you've lost my vote. If you care so little now, why should I believe you're going to magically start caring later? Not worth the risk when there's better nominations, bro.

Because that involves new content. See, your knee–jerk reaction seems to factor out the fact that the previous request involves me digging through six videos that I've already seen many times in the past for the umpteenth time, while being a judge involves watching new videos and deciding whether or not they get in. And like I said before, I at least cared enough to type out the statement and this longwinded response to you, right? Doesn't that prove that I actually am at least concerned with counterclaims to my legitimacy? Furthermore, better nominations? You're ****ting me, right? Those people haven't even tried to come up with responses yet, and your only reason for trusting them over me is a fallacious belief in the benefit of the doubt. Basically, what I'm saying is that you've jumped to conclusions based on false assumptions.

Also, chaz, you claimed that you'd have your statement and video ready by Tuesday, whilst simultaneously announcing "ready" status, but I've yet to see you post either of those things. Still, you feel the need to call out my dedication to the project? That seems at least a tiny bit hypocritical to me.

[Akyho]

Hard to say what my 10 favorite clips are, but I'll work on telling you guys about that later if I feel like it.

I missed that part when I first read it....told you...me and Haar are the same!!! HA HA HA AHHA AHA

Clearly a lot of people could not argue against the compilation requirement yet could not believe in it at the same time.

[urahara1001]

Also, chaz, you claimed that you'd have your statement and video ready by Tuesday, whilst simultaneously announcing "ready" status, but I've yet to see you post either of those things. Still, you feel the need to call out my dedication to the project? That seems at least a tiny bit hypocritical to me.

I did post earlier about this thread not being the ideal place to put the statements and compilations, but rather to put them in the voting thread once that gets mady (not open yet to give people time to put thingd together). Having those ready but held in reserve isn't hypocritical, it's just a matter of only posting thing where they'll be most relevant.

Also, if putting together the compilation is being seen as such a hassle and unecessary aspect, then why the lack of calls against it when being discussed? There has been ample time and discussion on the subject to have voiced such an opinion before the point that it would be seen as a simple lack of effort.

[milleniummaster18]

And the bitch comes up to protect his pimp. Keep the circus going, lads.

[Guthix]

I did post earlier about this thread not being the ideal place to put the statements and compilations, but rather to put them in the voting thread once that gets mady (not open yet to give people time to put thingd together). Having those ready but held in reserve isn't hypocritical, it's just a matter of only posting thing where they'll be most relevant.

Also, if putting together the compilation is being seen as such a hassle and unecessary aspect, then why the lack of calls against it when being discussed? There has been ample time and discussion on the subject to have voiced such an opinion before the point that it would be seen as a simple lack of effort.

you people are retarded to think that silence is equal to acceptance.

[urahara1001]

I never said that silence equals acceptance. But silence also does not equal opposition. In fact, I lamented earlier about people not speaking up one way or the other. Have you not noticed Dark's comments about +1ing things in response to that?


And the bitch comes up to protect his pimp. Keep the circus going, lads.

I'm suspecting Chaz isn't the only one finished with the statement at the very least. Regardless, it's not so much defending as it is re-referencing parts of the conversation that seem to have been missed.

[jinzo64]

I'm finished with my video, I'm just waiting for the voting thread to become available, Before I post my compilation and do my statement.

But what ever we decide to do,Weather we go with a full blown AMVHell or a minis series. I'm completely invested.